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Thread: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

  1. #291
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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    And you started out so good but just couldn't resist falling back into brainwash mode. Let me remind you the Democrats controlled Congress from January 2007 to January 2011 thus the Obama stimulus was ready to go in February 2009. Obama proposed a 844 billion stimulus program getting everything he wanted and yet how much of that stimulus was spent in 2009? You want to give him credit for bringing us out of recession in June 2009 but fail to recognize that Obama himself said there wasn't such a thing as a shovel ready job

    Like far too many you ignore the components of GDP. One of those components is Govt. spending so what do you think is going to happen to economic growth when the govt. pumps 844 billion into the economy? There is your economic growth for 2009-2010, not the private sector which is the largest component and something you want to ignore

    The Obama stimulus was supposed to jump start the economy but rather it bailed out unions, gave targeted tax cuts that required certain consumer action, and was nothing more than a liberal spend fest that didn't do what it was supposed to or did it, liberals?



    Did you even read the Forbes Article or any other article that presents a different opinion than yours? Obama has increased the numbers of people below the poverty level, he has set records for people dropping out of the labor market, he has supervised the reduction in payroll hours and massive increase in part time employment yet you want to blame Reagan for giving ALL FIT payers a tax cut and thus creating 17 million jobs? How many jobs has Obama created since the recession began? 146 million December 2007 to 144 million today almost 6 years later?

    Here is the data that you and others liberals want to ignore





    TARP was a loan and was mostly paid back, where did that repayment show up in the deficit? Answer, it didn't so Bush got blamed for the TARP loans even though repaid but added to the deficit. What exactly did Obama do? Bailed out union contracts without giving the states the opportunity to do that, took over GM/Chrysler then selling Chrysler to Italy, paying for it out of tax dollars leaving bond holders and the taxpayers on the hook for billions. Yes, that is a liberal success.



    Yet we came out of recession in June 2009 long before anything Obama could have done got implemented and many are still waiting for those shovels to arrive

    Your post just goes to show how poorly you understand the U.S. economy, its components, and exactly what Obama did. Please show me the official govt. site that captures saved jobs? Obama took over an economy that had 143 million Americans working and today after adding almost 7 trillion to the debt it is 144 million. 146 million were working in December 2007 when the recession began. Millions have dropped out of the labor force today, setting records



    I guess by liberals standards high unemployment, high numbers of people dropping out of the labor force, high debt, stagnant GDP is the new normal, the European normal and a liberal success story



    Executive orders that change the laws created by Congress are a violation of the Constitution
    "Executive orders that change the laws created by Congress are a violation of the Constitution"

    Only if determined to be so by the Federal Court system.

  2. #292
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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by PMZ View Post
    If debt was caused by dates this could be relevant. Alas, it's caused by policies like wars and tax cuts and great recessions.

    When you consider that plus the fact that % of GDP is the only relevant measure of national debt, the only President worse at creating it than Bush was Reagan.

    Conservatism is absolutely unaffordable in government, business and religion.
    Regardless of what caused the debt leadership is about taking the hand you were dealt and making things better. I doubt seriously that you are who you say are are unless you inherited your money. No one is so anti capitalist as you could ever be as wealthy as you claim

    Reagan took over a worse economy than Obama and leadership brought us out of that recession and the economic growth, job creation, peace dividend were the results. Economic activity stems more from people keeping more of what they earn and not govt. spending.

    Percent of GDP is a measurement but not as good of a measurement as job creation, economic activity and by all standards Obama has had the worst recovery on record but it is a recovery based upon his lack of leadership skills and management ability.

    Only in the liberal world is high debt, high unemployment, massive dependence on govt, stagnant economic growth the new normal and acceptable. Doubt seriously your success was created by that govt. you now support

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Regardless of what caused the debt leadership is about taking the hand you were dealt and making things better. I doubt seriously that you are who you say are are unless you inherited your money. No one is so anti capitalist as you could ever be as wealthy as you claim

    Reagan took over a worse economy than Obama and leadership brought us out of that recession and the economic growth, job creation, peace dividend were the results. Economic activity stems more from people keeping more of what they earn and not govt. spending.

    Percent of GDP is a measurement but not as good of a measurement as job creation, economic activity and by all standards Obama has had the worst recovery on record but it is a recovery based upon his lack of leadership skills and management ability.

    Only in the liberal world is high debt, high unemployment, massive dependence on govt, stagnant economic growth the new normal and acceptable. Doubt seriously your success was created by that govt. you now support
    I think that this post sets a new record for deception.

    "Regardless of what caused the debt leadership is about taking the hand you were dealt and making things better."

    Name a measure of government performance that's not improved on Obama's watch.

    " Reagan took over a worse economy than Obama "

    This one is not even in the same zip code as truth resides.

    "Economic activity stems more from people keeping more of what they earn and not govt. spending."

    No evidence, no proof.

    " Percent of GDP is a measurement but not as good of a measurement as job creation

    What I said is that percent of GDP is the standard measure of national debt. That's absolutely true.

    Doesn't it bother you at all that the only way to sell your politics is to tell lie after lie?

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by PMZ View Post
    I think that this post sets a new record for deception.

    "Regardless of what caused the debt leadership is about taking the hand you were dealt and making things better."

    Name a measure of government performance that's not improved on Obama's watch.

    " Reagan took over a worse economy than Obama "

    This one is not even in the same zip code as truth resides.

    "Economic activity stems more from people keeping more of what they earn and not govt. spending."

    No evidence, no proof.

    " Percent of GDP is a measurement but not as good of a measurement as job creation

    What I said is that percent of GDP is the standard measure of national debt. That's absolutely true.

    Doesn't it bother you at all that the only way to sell your politics is to tell lie after lie?
    "your" President is the most incompetent ever to hold the office and like you out of touch with reality. I have given you data that you ignored which makes what you are doing IMO an act and someone that could never be taken seriously.

    Proof of the statement about private spending is in the components of GDP. There are four, figure out what they are and what they contribute to GDP. Number one is consumer spending that makes up 2/3rds of GDP and consumer spending in spurred by more spendable income.

    You continue to show how little information you truly have and apparently a total inability to do any independent research.

    Percent of national debt to GDP if truly is important says it all

    Reagan 50%
    Bush 70%
    Obama 103%

    Seems that the only lies are coming from liberals because I have provided actual data and supported it by links. You want to ignore the links

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    "your" President is the most incompetent ever to hold the office and like you out of touch with reality. I have given you data that you ignored which makes what you are doing IMO an act and someone that could never be taken seriously.

    Proof of the statement about private spending is in the components of GDP. There are four, figure out what they are and what they contribute to GDP. Number one is consumer spending that makes up 2/3rds of GDP and consumer spending in spurred by more spendable income.

    You continue to show how little information you truly have and apparently a total inability to do any independent research.

    Percent of national debt to GDP if truly is important says it all

    Reagan 50%
    Bush 70%
    Obama 103%

    Seems that the only lies are coming from liberals because I have provided actual data and supported it by links. You want to ignore the links
    Debt is not caused by dates. If you disagree post the Obama policies that caused any of it.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by PMZ View Post
    Debt is not caused by dates. If you disagree post the Obama policies that caused any of it.
    Debt is a cumulative total of deficits and deficits are certainly date stamped coming from the yearly budget of the United States which includes Revenue and expenses. You continue to show how little you understand about the budget of the United States which makes your support for Obama embarrassing..

    Obama is responsible for the budgets he signed, 2009=2013, an average over one trillion dollars a year creating 5 trillion of the debt. It really is a shame watching your double standard here holding Bush to an entirely different standard that Obama. You seem happy with his performance and the question is why?

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Do you think spending 844 billion dollars is going to have any effect on the economy? You hitch your wagon to GDP numbers ignoring unemployment, under employment, discouraged workers, Debt. Forbes explained it to you but apparently you choose to believe what you are told by others.
    First place, only 2/3 of the $844 was spending; the other 1/3 was tax cuts (which we all know are pretty worthless as stimulus, unless of course its workers tax cuts, which fortunately much, but not all of it was).

    $844B/$1.6T is a somewhat meaningful ratio. I personally subscribed to argument, that many did at the time, that the stimulus should have been twice that. However, as we have already firmly established, the conventional wisdom was that it worked. You are free, however, to have unconventional wisdom.

    Interesting article by Forbes. However, this is a political writer not an economist; and its an opinion (by a guy guided by the "political star") not a research paper. I never suggested there wasn't a compelling argument for the proposition that the stimulus failed; just that there are strong arguments FOR the notion that the stimulus succeeded.

    Again, part of what made the stimulus work was that it stabilized the economy and position for growth. No one ever expected the stimulus to fix the economy.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 02-03-14 at 08:24 PM.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    First place, only 2/3 of the $844 was spending; the other 1/3 was tax cuts (which we all know are pretty worthless as stimulus, unless of course its workers tax cuts, which fortunately much, but not all of it was).

    $844B/$1.6T is a somewhat meaningful ratio. I personally subscribed to argument, that many did at the time, that the stimulus should have been twice that. However, as we have already firmly established, the conventional wisdom was that it worked. You are free, however, to have unconventional wisdom.

    Interesting article by Forbes. However, this is a political writer not an economist; and its an opinion (by a guy guided by the "political star") not a research paper. I never suggested there wasn't a compelling argument for the proposition that the stimulus failed; just that there are strong arguments FOR the notion that the stimulus succeeded.

    Again, part of what made the stimulus work was that it stabilized the economy and position for growth. No one ever expected the stimulus to fix the economy.
    That is your opinion, how did the stimulus stabilize the economy when a very small percentage of it actually got to the American people? You want badly to believe it was the stimulus when economists claim it was TARP that stabilized the economy

    You claim that 2/3rds of the stimulus was tax cuts. How much of a tax cut did you and your family get? There were targeted tax cuts but all those were were reduction in budgeted expense items as they required a certain action and even with that reduction in expenses the deficits exceeded a trillion dollars eachof Obama's first four years.

    There are those here that want to give Obama credit but the facts simply don't support that contention. There isn't a non partisan verifiable site that measures jobs saved and you ought to know that.

    Here is the Forbes Article on the Stimulus

    President Obama's Smashing Success Story: Greatly Increasing The Power Of Government - Forbes

    Then there is this, full of facts and data

    Economically, Could Obama Be America's Worst President? - Forbes

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Debt is a cumulative total of deficits and deficits are certainly date stamped coming from the yearly budget of the United States which includes Revenue and expenses. You continue to show how little you understand about the budget of the United States which makes your support for Obama embarrassing..

    Obama is responsible for the budgets he signed, 2009=2013, an average over one trillion dollars a year creating 5 trillion of the debt. It really is a shame watching your double standard here holding Bush to an entirely different standard that Obama. You seem happy with his performance and the question is why?
    So, as an example, you believe that it would have been smarter if Obama stopped both of Bush's holy wars, on his first day in office, and said, excuse us, sorry for bombing your cities, it was an error on our part.

    Remember how hard he fought to end Bush's wealth redistribution tax cuts only to be told by Boner that if you do that we'll throw the unemployed under the bus.

    Don't act so naive.

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    Re: Transcript: Obama's State Of The Union Address 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by PMZ View Post
    So, as an example, you believe that it would have been smarter if Obama stopped both of Bush's holy wars, on his first day in office, and said, excuse us, sorry for bombing your cities, it was an error on our part.

    Remember how hard he fought to end Bush's wealth redistribution tax cuts only to be told by Boner that if you do that we'll throw the unemployed under the bus.

    Don't act so naive.
    You mean the "Holy War" that the Democrat controlled Senate authorized in October 2002 with a 76-23 vote? Or how about implementing the status of forces agreement Bush signed in 2008 ending the Iraq War? Maybe it was the Afghanistan supplementals Obama signed in 2009 expanding the Afghanistan war and adding to the deficits?

    What I find quite telling is how many people like you care how much someone else pays in Federal Income Taxes but ignores that 50% of income earning families pay zero. No problem here but if you thing we have a revenue problem why not go after income from all income earning families?

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