• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Senate Republicans pitch ObamaCare alternative on eve of presidential address

What if...? said:
Tried online but ran into an issue due to the vagaries in my income right now. Starting out with the stagehands union means feast and famine and the website had no "not sure" option. Gotta call and talk to somebody.
Click to expand...

Good luck. Honestly.
 
j-mac said:
We have heard since this law was first proposed in 2009, that Republicans have no alternatives. To some extent that is true, not in that Repubs didn't offer anything, indeed there were several plans put forth only to be set out there and blocked by Harry Reid, and then denounced as 'nothing to offer'....Well, here we go with another one. Will democrats again be the party of disingenuousness, and lie that nothing was put forward? Here are some key points of the latest proposal...



It may not be a fix all, but it is a start, and a return to allowing American's to make the choice, not some government official....And further, it is something that American's want a return to, with nearly every measurement polled of the President's performance, from O-care, to trustworthiness Obama's, and democrat governance is coming in with approvals in the high 30s, and disapproval in the near 60% range....
Click to expand...

The Republicans don't have an original plan, but at least they're suggesting some fixes to the one passed by the Democrats. They do have some good ideas, except for the assumption that people who have pre existing conditions were able to get health care before Obamacare. That one needs to be looked at very carefully.

Here's an original idea, and one that doesn't require 2,000 pages:
Scrap the whole thing. Institute a universal health insurance plan that is really insurance, one that only covers catastrophic health care costs. Everyone, regardless of "pre existing conditions", pays for their own health care until costs exceed 10% of their income. After that, the universal health care pays.

Everyone has skin in the game. Everyone has an incentive to cut costs. Employers no longer have to shoulder the burden of health care. No one should go bankrupt due to a health issue.

Right wingers won't like it as it is universal and therefore "socialism."\
Left wingers won't like it as the poor still have to pay something.

The rest of us would like it, as it would cut costs dramatically.
 
Dittohead not! said:
The Republicans don't have an original plan, but at least they're suggesting some fixes to the one passed by the Democrats. They do have some good ideas, except for the assumption that people who have pre existing conditions were able to get health care before Obamacare. That one needs to be looked at very carefully.

Here's an original idea, and one that doesn't require 2,000 pages:
Scrap the whole thing. Institute a universal health insurance plan that is really insurance, one that only covers catastrophic health care costs. Everyone, regardless of "pre existing conditions", pays for their own health care until costs exceed 10% of their income. After that, the universal health care pays.

Everyone has skin in the game. Everyone has an incentive to cut costs. Employers no longer have to shoulder the burden of health care. No one should go bankrupt due to a health issue.

Right wingers won't like it as it is universal and therefore "socialism."\
Left wingers won't like it as the poor still have to pay something.

The rest of us would like it, as it would cut costs dramatically.
Click to expand...

I advocate a bare bones plan for everybody with insurance companies providing "upgrades".

Don't have a problem with it not being free. And I think "overusers" at all levels need to be addressed. I know people with insurance who go to the doctor for EVERY LITTLE THING. Adding a bunch of new people doing this who pay nothing would be extremely unhelpful. HOW to address it is the tricky part.
 
Erod said:
It's not faster at all. It's painfully slow if you are in need of serious care.

They are set up well for checkups and head colds. Who goes to Canada for a head cold?
Click to expand...

This is not universally true. There are times when faster care can be found across the border for surgery. Just like the other way around. The plural of anecdote is not data.

Canada definitely still has issues with wait times, but it is a mistake to think of this as being inherent to UHC systems. Canada's wait times are a Canadian problem. You'll notice that nobody brings up France, Germany, Switzerland. Sweden, Japan, or Australia when talking about wait times. Likely because all of those countries have us beat. Sometimes by a huge margin.
 
What if...? said:
I advocate a bare bones plan for everybody with insurance companies providing "upgrades".

Don't have a problem with it not being free. And I think "overusers" at all levels need to be addressed. I know people with insurance who go to the doctor for EVERY LITTLE THING. Adding a bunch of new people doing this who pay nothing would be extremely unhelpful. HOW to address it is the tricky part.
Click to expand...

I'm curious about the notion of an "overuser" of health care. Who gets too much health care? Most people I know won't go to a doctor until something is falling off or bleeding.
 
j-mac said:
Obama promised that under his plan average families would see a savings of $2500. per family, so far, they have seen the exact opposite with the plans costing an average of $2500. more than what they had....So the delusion is yours my friend.
Click to expand...
Military "expert" John McCain said that the war in Iraq would be over in a few weeks, maybe a couple months, but certainly not six months.


I can't believe a politician took the best possible outcome and touted it as normal. Why are politicians dishonest...omg waaaaaaaah!

Oh yeah, you know whom I consider the people who are credible? Those whom are right the first time instead of playing monday morning quarterback. That's never the Republicans.
 
What if...? said:
I advocate a bare bones plan for everybody with insurance companies providing "upgrades".

Don't have a problem with it not being free. And I think "overusers" at all levels need to be addressed. I know people with insurance who go to the doctor for EVERY LITTLE THING. Adding a bunch of new people doing this who pay nothing would be extremely unhelpful. HOW to address it is the tricky part.
Click to expand...

The only people I've heard of that "overuse" Health Care are those without insurance going into emergency rooms because they can't get a doctor any other time.

Other than that I really don't see people overusing. I could be mistaken, but that is what I've seen.
 
Deuce said:
I'm curious about the notion of an "overuser" of health care. Who gets too much health care? Most people I know won't go to a doctor until something is falling off or bleeding.
Click to expand...

I know several people who run to the doctor for every twinge and sniffle. Many moms with their kids too.

Low level hypochondria and a low tolerance for discomfort in the first case and "helicopter mom" in the latter.

My wife would have spent thousands at the vet for NOTHING by now if I let her.

Its all "Cadillac" insurance and govt providers, usually.

And like I said, addressing the phenomenon is EXTREMELY tricky. Maybe a surcharge for "false alarms".
 
Deuce said:
I'm curious about the notion of an "overuser" of health care. Who gets too much health care? Most people I know won't go to a doctor until something is falling off or bleeding.
Click to expand...

There was a story in the PPACA subforum about a woman going to the E.R. for a cough. That's not an exaggeration either. And she's typical.
 
So basically it's Obamacare... except for the parts that actually help the lower class. And a tax cut. Of course there's a tax cut. That's not an alternative. That's a half-measure to take out the teeth.
 
What if...? said:
I know several people who run to the doctor for every twinge and sniffle. Many moms with their kids too.

Low level hypochondria and a low tolerance for discomfort in the first case and "helicopter mom" in the latter.

My wife would have spent thousands at the vet for NOTHING by now if I let her.

Its all "Cadillac" insurance and govt providers, usually.

And like I said, addressing the phenomenon is EXTREMELY tricky. Maybe a surcharge for "false alarms".
Click to expand...
You stop that behavior real quick with High deductible plans, which is what most PPACA plans are.
 
Deuce said:
This is not universally true. There are times when faster care can be found across the border for surgery. Just like the other way around. The plural of anecdote is not data.

Canada definitely still has issues with wait times, but it is a mistake to think of this as being inherent to UHC systems. Canada's wait times are a Canadian problem. You'll notice that nobody brings up France, Germany, Switzerland. Sweden, Japan, or Australia when talking about wait times. Likely because all of those countries have us beat. Sometimes by a huge margin.
Click to expand...

Those countries don't have a swath of unproductive government co-dependents that abuse the healthcare system at every turn for every thing. There is a very small percentage of Americans that put an enormous strain on the healthcare system because they are non-contributors to the economy in general. For the vast majority of Americans, the system needs minor tweaks only. It works very well for them. The problems are in New York and LA, so the the itch is getting treated like terminal cancer.
 
Paschendale said:
So basically it's Obamacare... except for the parts that actually help the lower class. And a tax cut. Of course there's a tax cut. That's not an alternative. That's a half-measure to take out the teeth.
Click to expand...

People have GOT to take some responsibility for their well-being. Healthcare isn't and shouldn't be free. The problem is with the swath of Americans who don't believe they should have to spend a red cent of their own money on pretty much anything, nor should they be responsible for feeding, clothing, and housing themselves.

Until we address willing codependency, there is no viable solution for these folks.
 
reinoe said:
Military "expert" John McCain said that the war in Iraq would be over in a few weeks, maybe a couple months, but certainly not six months.


I can't believe a politician took the best possible outcome and touted it as normal. Why are politicians dishonest...omg waaaaaaaah!

Oh yeah, you know whom I consider the people who are credible? Those whom are right the first time instead of playing monday morning quarterback. That's never the Republicans.
Click to expand...

We already know that you will refuse to see any wrong in Dear Leader...Why else bring Iraq into a health care discussion?
 
reinoe said:
Military "expert" John McCain said that the war in Iraq would be over in a few weeks, maybe a couple months, but certainly not six months.


I can't believe a politician took the best possible outcome and touted it as normal. Why are politicians dishonest...omg waaaaaaaah!

Oh yeah, you know whom I consider the people who are credible? Those whom are right the first time instead of playing monday morning quarterback. That's never the Republicans.
Click to expand...

I thought he said it would be easy? Anywho.
 
What if...? said:
I advocate a bare bones plan for everybody with insurance companies providing "upgrades".

Don't have a problem with it not being free. And I think "overusers" at all levels need to be addressed. I know people with insurance who go to the doctor for EVERY LITTLE THING. Adding a bunch of new people doing this who pay nothing would be extremely unhelpful. HOW to address it is the tricky part.
Click to expand...

Everyone should pay something. Nothing is free.

And, what you say is true about over use. The other part of the equation is the vast difference in charges for the same procedure. Some health care providers charge ten times as much as others for the same thing. The reason they get by with it is that the customer (patient) isn't paying and often doesn't eve know the true costs. If a grocery store tried to sell a steak for $50 that another was selling for $5, it wouldn't be in business very long.
 
Well this is a step forward from voting to repeal it without any other plan of action afterwards. Props to these fellas for actually trying to fix something
 
Jetboogieman said:
Major HMOs have massively documented practises of denying people coverage, dropping coverage and forcing substantially higher premiums on people who get sick.

Are you denying this occurs?

A: I'm in Canada, I was born in South Africa.

B: I was speaking about Americans concept of choice, not what choices they actually make.

At work I'll have to track down the video and corresponding study, interesting stuff.

That's not the point, the point is to question whether or not a choice is really a choice and this is a good example of it.

Is it really a choice of different drinks... or is it all sugary crap?

Is it really a choice of different healthcare providers... or is it all self serving corporations whose aim is to make a profit off you while providing you with the least amount of care possible?

Yeah because that was working so well up until 2009 :roll:

I'm not saying Obamacare is the answer, I think it's actually a horrific piece of legislation and I supported and expected it to be struck down by SCOTUS but it has not been.

What I take issue with is this notion that private business is the way to go with Healthcare and I just don't believe that.
Click to expand...

Notice, none of your questions were actually answered.

Interesting, no?

Standard conservative discussion tactic: Never actually address any of the false narratives and fallacious talking points
 
j-mac said:
We have heard since this law was first proposed in 2009, that Republicans have no alternatives. To some extent that is true, not in that Repubs didn't offer anything, indeed there were several plans put forth only to be set out there and blocked by Harry Reid, and then denounced as 'nothing to offer'....Well, here we go with another one. Will democrats again be the party of disingenuousness, and lie that nothing was put forward? Here are some key points of the latest proposal...



It may not be a fix all, but it is a start, and a return to allowing American's to make the choice, not some government official....And further, it is something that American's want a return to, with nearly every measurement polled of the President's performance, from O-care, to trustworthiness Obama's, and democrat governance is coming in with approvals in the high 30s, and disapproval in the near 60% range....
Click to expand...

How do they plan to pay for it? The mandates are unpopular but that's what funds all the other things that people like about Obamacare and what this Republican plan says they'd keep, things like no denying pre-existing conditions, keeping your kids on your plan till they are 26, etc, etc.
 
So, another health insurance law that does nothing to control health care costs.
 
j-mac said:
We already know that you will refuse to see any wrong in Dear Leader...Why else bring Iraq into a health care discussion?
Click to expand...

What is it with you people and this "Dear Leader"? I've been plenty critical of Obama. Your problem is that if someone isn't all criticism all the time, then they just aren't being critical enough. Good lord. Pay attention. A politician took the best possible outcome and touted it as if it would be the normal outcome. What is unusual about this?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Everyone should pay something. Nothing is free.

And, what you say is true about over use. The other part of the equation is the vast difference in charges for the same procedure. Some health care providers charge ten times as much as others for the same thing. The reason they get by with it is that the customer (patient) isn't paying and often doesn't eve know the true costs. If a grocery store tried to sell a steak for $50 that another was selling for $5, it wouldn't be in business very long.
Click to expand...

Then there's pharmaceuticals. The asthma inhalers I use cost $50/ea here. Mexico? 3 for $15. TEN times as much in the states. Ridiculous verging on criminal.
 
Wiseone said:
How do they plan to pay for it? The mandates are unpopular but that's what funds all the other things that people like about Obamacare and what this Republican plan says they'd keep, things like no denying pre-existing conditions, keeping your kids on your plan till they are 26, etc, etc.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there is a shrimp on a treadmill somewhere that can do without the funding, or a hooker in China that we don't need to know their drinking habits that we could do without...
 
reinoe said:
What is it with you people and this "Dear Leader"? I've been plenty critical of Obama. Your problem is that if someone isn't all criticism all the time, then they just aren't being critical enough. Good lord. Pay attention. A politician took the best possible outcome and touted it as if it would be the normal outcome. What is unusual about this?
Click to expand...

"Best possible outcome"? Are you serious? No, the "best possible outcome" would have been to actually look at areas driving the inflated costs and address them, instead of trying to nationalize 1/6 of American GDP in a power play, that 60% of American's didn't want then, and don't want now.
 
j-mac said:
I'm sure there is a shrimp on a treadmill somewhere that can do without the funding, or a hooker in China that we don't need to know their drinking habits that we could do without...
Click to expand...

So its going to be paid for with fairy dust and dreams? This is a serious question, the mandates in Obamacare are unpopular but they are also the thing that pays for all the benefits that everyone loves, you can't have your cake and eat it too kind of thing, if the Republican alternative can't even answer a basic question like "How will this program be funded" its just a stupid joke for stupid people.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom