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Thread: Senate Republicans pitch ObamaCare alternative on eve of presidential address

  1. #91
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    Re: Senate Republicans pitch ObamaCare alternative on eve of presidential address

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    What Green beard posted are facts and figures of the cost of medical insurance premiums. What you've posted is the results of a survey of how people feel about the ACA. This is simply an apples to road apples comparison.
    All I am saying is that we can 'cherry pick' til the cows come home, doesn't mean a thing when the perception in the public turns sour....And this law in its rolled out glory is pissing people off.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Senate Republicans pitch ObamaCare alternative on eve of presidential address

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    I am for raising taxes, on a mean-tested basis.
    I pay only 10% federal tax on my public pension and zero state income tax, insanity.
    Before you rightist meme me on give it back then, it takes a Nation of people who want it to work together, not just me.
    Yeah, run with that...I am sure it will be popular among the sandals crowd....It always is popular to attack someone that has more than you.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Senate Republicans pitch ObamaCare alternative on eve of presidential address

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yeah, run with that...I am sure it will be popular among the sandals crowd....It always is popular to attack someone that has more than you.
    Tell me where I attacked those who have more than I. Don't tell me you're having the 1% meltdown. Alice Cooper wrote of you "Billion Dollar Babies" 4 decades ago. Once they have all the money, the game's over .
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Senate Republicans pitch ObamaCare alternative on eve of presidential address

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nice graph...Kaiser has been a proponent of the ACA, as are hospital groups and others that stand to benefit from it, like say, the AARP. I gave you what I found in looking on HC.gov, so while you may be able to find a source that you agree with, and you think backs up your personal feeling on the subject, it is less productive to be drawn into dueling tainted sourcing wouldn't you agree?
    I quoted two things: 1) a PricewaterhouseCoopers analysis of premiums in the exchanges vs. in the employer-based group markets, and 2) Gallup's uninsurance poll.

    Which one is it you're not liking?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac
    I am telling you, that these plans on the exchange are costing more, and more people in net so far, are uninsured....

    I mean something that should have you questioning your own charts here, is the simple fact that 5 million were kicked off their plans, and the ACA if you believe the administration says they've signed up 3 million so far, that is a net minus of 2 million more people uninsured....This is common sense stuff.
    Plans on the exchanges aren't costing more than comparable coverage. If you compare the average employer-based plan to equivalent (i.e., gold and platinum level plans) in the exchanges, which is what PwC did, you find that exchange plans are cheaper.

    What you're referring to is people who were in the individual market buying skimpier plans and are now buying more generous plans. In the pre-ACA world, those markets were most heavily populated by what would be considered "tin" (or sub-bronze) plans. The PwC study touches on this:

    Prior to the ACA, individual insurance coverage was more limited than employer insurance, and, on average, comparable to bronze plans purchased on the ACA's exchanges. Some of the sticker shock noted among enrollees in the new exchanges is due to more comprehensive insurance coverage in the exchange plans. More than half the people in the individual market had coverage below the bronze level of 60%, the lowest level in the exchanges.
    You can compare tin to bronze and find that tin was cheaper, that doesn't tell us anything interesting. But if you compare gold/platinum in the new competitive marketplaces to gold/platinum in the employer-based plans that most privately insured people have, you do find something interesting--the gold/platinum plans are cheaper in the new marketplaces. Apples-to-apples comparisons of comparable plans are showing that exchange plans are cheaper.

    As for the enrollment numbers, those millions losing insurance numbers are inflated by 1) ignoring those who were able to extend their existing plans through this year, and 2) forgetting that many people with canceled policies were either auto-enrolled in off-exchange plans or otherwise bought individual plans off-exchange (and thus don't show up in the exchange counts). You also ignore here that not only are there more than 3 million people who've signed up for private insurance through an exchange, there are over 7 million who've enrolled in Medicaid plans. That means even if your 5 million number wasn't inflated, the number of newly insured people likely outpaced that marker already anyway.

    Which is why Gallup didn't see a surge in uninsured people this month but instead actually saw the uninsured rate dropping.

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    Re: Senate Republicans pitch ObamaCare alternative on eve of presidential address

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    All I am saying is that we can 'cherry pick' til the cows come home, doesn't mean a thing when the perception in the public turns sour....And this law in its rolled out glory is pissing people off.
    You can cherry pick, and you can compare what people believe with what is actually happening. In politics, what people believe, true or not, is what matters. You're right that they believe that the ACA is ramping up costs and costing people their health insurance. The reality is that, while still a flawed program, the costs have leveled off and people who couldn't get insurance before now can.

    What people believe at the time of the next couple of elections will have an impact on those elections. What that will be, who knows?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Senate Republicans pitch ObamaCare alternative on eve of presidential address

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Tell me where I attacked those who have more than I. Don't tell me you're having the 1% meltdown. Alice Cooper wrote of you "Billion Dollar Babies" 4 decades ago. Once they have all the money, the game's over .
    Wrong. Money/wealth is not a static pie.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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