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Thread: Israel PM under fire over son's Norwegian girlfriend

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    Re: Israel PM under fire over son's Norwegian girlfriend

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    The knuckle dragging ultra orthodox Jews here need only pay attention to who they are boning.

    I doubt this attitude is indicative of mainstream Israeli opinion.
    Actually it is more mainstream than you think, especially with the elder population. I have had Jewish friends who dated non Jews and there was always grandparents and such who came with comments about the non-Jewish aspect of the person they were dating. I also reading a debate about Natalie Portman back when she was single, that she stated once that she could never marry a non Jew... and in the end she did marry a fellow Jew. And I would not put Natalie Portman in the "dumb blond religious nutjob" block.. Now that is not saying it is a majority that believe such things, but I think it is more than most people expect. Same goes for Muslims btw.
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    Re: Israel PM under fire over son's Norwegian girlfriend

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    To be honest, pointing out Godwins Law is a fallacy in itself. If the comparison is fallacious, then you can call Godwin - "you know who else was vegetarian, Hitler!". If someone is harping on about group purity the comparison is fair to make.

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    Re: Israel PM under fire over son's Norwegian girlfriend

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    The knuckle dragging ultra orthodox Jews here need only pay attention to who they are boning.

    I doubt this attitude is indicative of mainstream Israeli opinion.
    Actually, it's a pretty mainstream view of Jews.Now before people jump down my throat for that.. let me explain. What most classify as Jews (anybody born of parents who are of the Jewish faith), I do not.
    To me Jews are those who are religious. Then there is Israeli (insert - American, or whatever country they live in unless in Israel) who are Jewish by culture but not by religion (non-practicing).

    Ben K. with you being in Ireland you see this just as much as Americans do when it comes to Catholic vs. Protestant with those of Irish decent. Being Irish is synonymous with being Catholic and it's not true. While Protestants tend to consider themselves Ulster-Scots, they are still Irish. So we have to rely on 2nd title for the subset (religion) they are. Irish-Catholic vs. Ulster-Scots which is the religious definer.

    Orthodox Jews are becoming a larger and larger part of the make up of the modern Jewish movement. They have alot more kids and they tend to stay Orthodox.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: Israel PM under fire over son's Norwegian girlfriend

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Actually, it's a pretty mainstream view of Jews.Now before people jump down my throat for that.. let me explain. What most classify as Jews (anybody born of parents who are of the Jewish faith), I do not.
    To me Jews are those who are religious. Then there is Israeli (insert - American, or whatever country they live in unless in Israel) who are Jewish by culture but not by religion (non-practicing).
    They may have culture wars over there like everyone else, but Israeli's are largely Jewish no matter what side of the issue they're on.

    Ben K. with you being in Ireland you see this just as much as Americans do when it comes to Catholic vs. Protestant with those of Irish decent. Being Irish is synonymous with being Catholic and it's not true. While Protestants tend to consider themselves Ulster-Scots, they are still Irish. So we have to rely on 2nd title for the subset (religion) they are. Irish-Catholic vs. Ulster-Scots which is the religious definer.
    If there's regressive social views here the Irish-Catholic thing becomes synonymous. Ulster Scots in NI may have regressive social views, but Anglo Irish in RoI tended to be socially liberal. Anglo Irish has probably been replaced by lapsed/secular/liberal catholic Irish in any "Culture War".

    Orthodox Jews are becoming a larger and larger part of the make up of the modern Jewish movement. They have alot more kids and they tend to stay Orthodox.
    Doesn't mean Orthodox Jew defines Jew, or that Jew isn't an ethnic identifier as well as a religious one.

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    Re: Israel PM under fire over son's Norwegian girlfriend

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    They may have culture wars over there like everyone else, but Israeli's are largely Jewish no matter what side of the issue they're on.
    I don't care what side of the issue they are on. I am looking at how they define themselves religiously. Religiously or not they'll rally around the flag as it's a culture mentality which is political.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    If there's regressive social views here the Irish-Catholic thing becomes synonymous. Ulster Scots in NI may have regressive social views, but Anglo Irish in RoI tended to be socially liberal. Anglo Irish has probably been replaced by lapsed/secular/liberal catholic Irish in any "Culture War".
    If and may? You are being really nice. Anglo-Irish is a subset as well but rarely do they define themselves religiously which is why they are more socially liberal. But those Irish who have lapsed/secular/liberal aren't religious so you can't define them as Irish-Catholic. But rather Irish.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Doesn't mean Orthodox Jew defines Jew, or that Jew isn't an ethnic identifier as well as a religious one.
    I never defined Orthodox Jews to mean Jew, I was just pointing out they are the largest group of practicing Jews. Jew isn't an ethnic identifier. Judaism is a religion. It's a religious identifier. An Ethnic group is (by definition) a social group of people who identify with each other based on common ancestral, cultural, social, or national experience. That means an American Jew has a different Ethnicity then a Israeli Jew or an Ethiopian Jew. Shlomo Molla struggles (National Experience) as an Ethiopian is different then an American Jew born in NYC in 1965. Which is why even in Israel you'll find Ethiopian Jews who immigrated from Ethiopia over the last 30 years have had major problems "fitting" in. They aren't natural speakers of Hebrew, they've faced racism, prejudice and they are paid 30-40% less the Arabs working in Israel.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: Israel PM under fire over son's Norwegian girlfriend

    I don't care what side of the issue they are on. I am looking at how they define themselves religiously. Religiously or not they'll rally around the flag as it's a culture mentality which is political.
    I'm not following, they'll rally around the Jewish identifier if they're religious or not.




    If and may? You are being really nice. Anglo-Irish is a subset as well but rarely do they define themselves religiously which is why they are more socially liberal. But those Irish who have lapsed/secular/liberal aren't religious so you can't define them as Irish-Catholic. But rather Irish.
    I said liberal Catholic or secular so they can be religious and liberal. Anglo Irish quite proudly ID themselves as Church of Ireland, I'm not sure what you're talking about.


    I never defined Orthodox Jews to mean Jew, I was just pointing out they are the largest group of practicing Jews. Jew isn't an ethnic identifier. Judaism is a religion. It's a religious identifier. An Ethnic group is (by definition) a social group of people who identify with each other based on common ancestral, cultural, social, or national experience. That means an American Jew has a different Ethnicity then a Israeli Jew or an Ethiopian Jew. Shlomo Molla struggles (National Experience) as an Ethiopian is different then an American Jew born in NYC in 1965. Which is why even in Israel you'll find Ethiopian Jews who immigrated from Ethiopia over the last 30 years have had major problems "fitting" in. They aren't natural speakers of Hebrew, they've faced racism, prejudice and they are paid 30-40% less the Arabs working in Israel.
    An American Jew is an American from a Jewish ethnic background. A tribal religion is going to share ethnicity and religion. If Celtic polytheism was still around, celtic would mean a religion and an ethnicity.

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    Re: Israel PM under fire over son's Norwegian girlfriend

    Seriously, who gives a damn about what some religious nutjobs think?
    How is that piece news-worthy?
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Israel PM under fire over son's Norwegian girlfriend

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Actually, it's a pretty mainstream view of Jews.Now before people jump down my throat for that.. let me explain. What most classify as Jews (anybody born of parents who are of the Jewish faith), I do not.
    To me Jews are those who are religious. Then there is Israeli (insert - American, or whatever country they live in unless in Israel) who are Jewish by culture but not by religion (non-practicing).

    Ben K. with you being in Ireland you see this just as much as Americans do when it comes to Catholic vs. Protestant with those of Irish decent. Being Irish is synonymous with being Catholic and it's not true. While Protestants tend to consider themselves Ulster-Scots, they are still Irish. So we have to rely on 2nd title for the subset (religion) they are. Irish-Catholic vs. Ulster-Scots which is the religious definer.

    Orthodox Jews are becoming a larger and larger part of the make up of the modern Jewish movement. They have alot more kids and they tend to stay Orthodox.
    Well as someone that married into the Jewish faith, (My Dad was Jewish but not my Mom, and my ex wife is Jewish, and her Mom Israeli and her Dad German of all things) I had to convert in order for my ex's family to accept me. I'm not religious so I didn't care, was just a formality for me. MY ex's Mom is moderate Jewish and stays Kosher, her children all reform Jews, but even in reform Judaism this mentality creeps in. I am thinking that because in Judaism the system (Breed line) is passed down by the matriarch. In America you're seeing this inter-marriage a lot more, and it is becoming accepted more and more, but even in America, the system for recording Jewish heritage is kept in Cincinnati, and if your Mother isn't Jewish, her kids simply are not, unless they convert.

    Personally, I don't care about organized religion. I find it antiquated, and resembling a civilized societies first real attempts at some sort of order. Authority, to me must come from somewhere, and what better place than somewhere you can't see. Seriously though, I have no beef with Jews or Christians, and my two older boys go to Jewish Sunday School, and my two younger one's attend Catholic Sunday school. If, like me they get a well rounded view on religion it has a lot to offer younger children, and as adults they are free to make up their own minds, just like I did.


    As to the OP, this Rabbi is a product of his religious convictions, and right or wrong he has a right to them. If you disagree, then say so, and make sure you're heard. People will decide for themselves what they view as rational. The Rabbi is actually right, even though he's wrong.


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    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Israel PM under fire over son's Norwegian girlfriend

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Seriously, who gives a damn about what some religious nutjobs think?
    How is that piece news-worthy?
    On the grounds that Israel is the first to cry discrimination in anything. So I suppose hypocrisy.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Israel PM under fire over son's Norwegian girlfriend

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    How is that piece news-worthy?
    Ask Yahoo news.

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