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Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

In other words, you have no answers for the questions I asked.

Because your questions are push-poll bait questions that aren't based in reality and that are clearly designed to trap anyone who answers them. Exposing your questions as being salivating worship of a maniac is far better than wasting my time by addressing each one individually.
 
I provided you with other sources concurring. You too denying special ops forces were operating inside Libya before and during the uprising?

You are correct Monte. British SAS and former SAS were inside Libya. As a matter of fact.....some were caught at the very beginning of the conflict, by Gadhafi.

The question for some reason still remains open.....on whether it is best to remove a dictator for the betterment of all others. Wherein stability is looked upon. So far the track record has not been stability left in the wake of trying to democratize such nations. It has been the opposite. Chaos and division of the people and whatever country.
 
Because your questions are push-poll bait questions that aren't based in reality and that are clearly designed to trap anyone who answers them. Exposing your questions as being salivating worship of a maniac is far better than wasting my time by addressing each one individually.

:0) Wrong.

You simply could not answer them without making your corporatist clown president look like Bush.

Thanks for playing.
 
Libya Chaos Worsens

WASHINGTON — Libya is plunging deeper into political turmoil with the country’s beleaguered government warning foreign shippers against loading crude oil from terminals in the East of the country controlled by federalist militias, and a majority of Libya’s fractious parliamentarians seemingly wanting to dismiss Prime Minister Ali Zeidan but unable to agree on a replacement.

---

“Libya is not one big mess,” says North Africa expert Bill Lawrence, a visiting professor of Political Science and International Affairs at George Washington University. “It is a bunch of little messes that are not very related. So, the string of assassinations in Benghazi is very different from the political game involved in the militias and their GNC allies in Tripoli, which is different from what’s going on in the borders, which is different from the fighting over smuggling of the trafficking in the South, different from the ethnic conflicts in other communities, and what is happening at the oil facilities. We tend to conflate this all because of the catastrophic weakness of the military and the police.”
Libya Chaos Worsens

Everywhere we walk, the flowers die.
 
An excellent read for the open-minded.

NATO’s War on Libya – Not a Humanitarian Intervention

Maximilian Forte’s book on the Libyan war, Slouching Towards Sirte: NATO’s War on Libya and Africa ( Baraka Books, 2012), is another powerful (and hence marginalized) study of the imperial powers in violent action, and with painful results, but supported by the UN, media, NGOs and a significant body of liberals and leftists who had persuaded themselves that this was a humanitarian enterprise. Forte shows compellingly that it wasn’t the least little bit humanitarian, either in the intent of its principals (the United States, France, and Great Britain) or in its results. As in the earlier cases of “humanitarian intervention” the Libyan program rested intellectually and ideologically on a set of supposedly justifying events and threats that were fabricated, selective, and/or otherwise misleading, but which were quickly institutionalized within the Western propaganda system.

---

Forte shows that the factual base for Gaddafi’s alleged threat to civilians, his treatment of protesters in mid-February 2011, was more than dubious. The claimed striking at protesters by aerial attacks, and the Viagra-based rape surge, were straightforward disinformation, and the number killed was small—24 protesters in the three days, February 15-17, according to Human Rights Watch—fewer than the number of alleged “black mercenaries” executed by the rebels in Derna in mid-February (50), and fewer than the early protester deaths in Tunis or Egypt that elicited no Security Council effort to “protect civilians.” There were claims of several thousand killed in February 2011, but Forte shows that this also was disinformation supplied by the rebels and their allies, but swallowed by many Western officials, media and other gullibles. That the actual evidence would induce the urgent and massive response by the NATO powers is implausible, and the rush to arms demands a different rationale than protecting civilians in a small North African state. Forte provides it, compellingly—Obama and company were seizing the “window of opportunity” for regime change.
NATO’s War on Libya – Not a Humanitarian Intervention | Global Research
 
:0) Wrong.

You simply could not answer them without making your corporatist clown president look like Bush.

Thanks for playing.

You couldn't answer my questions either. Can anyone who thinks that he is the modern incarnation of Abraham Lincoln and the leader of a global jihad be considered a sane person? That is far more relevant than whatever bread-and-circuses that the Gaddafi dictatorship provided its people, and whatever blatantly wrong propaganda videos you posted.
 
You couldn't answer my questions either. Can anyone who thinks that he is the modern incarnation of Abraham Lincoln and the leader of a global jihad be considered a sane person? That is far more relevant than whatever bread-and-circuses that the Gaddafi dictatorship provided its people, and whatever blatantly wrong propaganda videos you posted.

Did I miss something? Did I miss you being able to counter the so-called 'propaganda videos?'

No, you didn't / couldn't. :0)

Suggesting that Gaddafi was a leader of a 'global jihad' deems you seriously unlearned.

What 'global jihad' might that be?
 
They were invited in by the legitimate representative of the Libyan people: the Libyan opposition. No other authorization was necessary. The UNSC resolution was merely a political catalyst for allowing these justifiable activities to take place.

I don't see how the NTC was a" legitimate representative" -Qaddafi was in good standing (in general) with the world community.
 
Did I miss something? Did I miss you being able to counter the so-called 'propaganda videos?'

It's a video about the war being instigated by the Rothchild's to further their banking interests, witch should discredite it on it's own. But when asked to substantiate those claims, as with most responses to anything you post, you simply ignored it and continued repeating the same lines
 
you're quoting front page magazine, a publication I'm sure montecristo and yourself would easily recognize the faults with if we were discussing any other subject. And while I question the rational of supporting the Libyan opposition, the idea of citing popularity figures for Gaddafi in territory he held is rather mung headed given his style of rule. The same with citing his popularity among african leaders. Being that he was known as a revolutionary force and supporter, much like Castro (who mandela also supported). And such popularity doesn't translate to the idea that he was a just leader of his people.

And while he did take an iron hand approach to addressing jihadists within his country, he did the same to any opposition force, be it socialist, democratic, or anarchist. He was a violent dictator, no questions about it. And that hardly changes due to the fact that he spent some of the oil wealth, that he used to fuel an insanely extravagant lifestyle and considered little more than his own personal piggy bank, to deliver health care to his preferred populations
I don't have a problem with these characterizations, no dictatorial rule is perfect, it's going to be uneven.

I would hope we understand the regime change "go to switch" the neocons (and I include Obama in this) want to throw always produces "blowback"

The blowback to the Libyan people was, and is, a continual dysfunctional country. We got Bengazi.
On the whole I think we got less from our/NATO misadventures, then the Libyan people got shafted.
 
No he wasn't. he was at best seen as a convenient Allie at times, but was always seen as a bat **** crazy megalomaniac.

Remember when he called for Jihad against Switzerland?

Libya's Gaddafi urges jihad against Switzerland | Reuters

BBC News - Libya's Gaddafi urges 'holy war' against Switzerland
Thanks for the link ,said his kid was arrested in Switz.might explain it.

"Leader of Convenience " is fine with me - he got to the G-8, and shakes Obama 's hand.
Ansar al-Saharia was recently classified as a "global terrorist org" - mostly because of the Mali group, but the fact we allowed militia rule instead of Qaddafi allowance of SAS in Libya shows me we screwed up.

Qaddafi got religion "renounced terrorism" after Reagan almost blew him up in his tent.
Now the place can legitimately be called a "terrorist state" -can't see how this is helpful.
 
Thanks for the link ,said his kid was arrested in Switz.might explain it.

"Leader of Convenience " is fine with me - he got to the G-8, and shakes Obama 's hand.
Ansar al-Saharia was recently classified as a "global terrorist org" - mostly because of the Mali group, but the fact we allowed militia rule instead of Qaddafi allowance of SAS in Libya shows me we screwed up.

Qaddafi got religion "renounced terrorism" after Reagan almost blew him up in his tent.
Now the place can legitimately be called a "terrorist state" -can't see how this is helpful.


'Mornin AT. :2wave: Yeah how many of his family was killed then?
 
It's a video about the war being instigated by the Rothchild's to further their banking interests, witch should discredite it on it's own. But when asked to substantiate those claims, as with most responses to anything you post, you simply ignored it and continued repeating the same lines

:0) You're a conservative Dr. Chuckles, this kind of information doesn't flow your way ..

Only 3 countries left w/o ROTHSCHILD Central Bank!

In the year of 2000 there were seven countries without a Rothschild owned Central Bank:
Afghanistan
Iraq
Sudan
Libya
Cuba
North Korea
Iran

---

The only countries left in 2011 without a Central Bank owned by the Rothschild Family are:
Cuba
North Korea
Iran
Only 3 countries left w/o ROTHSCHILD Central Bank! >> Four Winds 10 - Truth Winds

In Libya, a Rothschild bank was established in Benghazi while the country was still at war.
AFP’s Most Viewed Article: Rothschilds Want Iran

I have absolutely no expectation that you can connect the dots. :0)
 
:0) You're a conservative Dr. Chuckles, this kind of information doesn't flow your way ..

No, plenty of people doubt moronic conspiracy theories that are dependent on xenophobia.

Only 3 countries left w/o ROTHSCHILD Central Bank!

do you understand what "evidence" is and how to establish an argument with citations? Your articles just makes the same assertions as you and don't present any actual evidence.
 
No, plenty of people doubt moronic conspiracy theories that are dependent on xenophobia.



do you understand what "evidence" is and how to establish an argument with citations? Your articles just makes the same assertions as you and don't present any actual evidence.

:0) I see why you're called Dr. Chuckles.

OK Dr. Chuckles .. HOW MANY COUNTRIES ARE THERE IN THE WORLD THAT DO NOT HAVE A ROTHSCHILD BANK .. WHICH IS THE LEAST OF THE ARGUMENTS AGAINST DESTROYING A PEACEFUL NATION THAT POSED NO THREAT .. BUT IT SEEMS THE ONLY ARGUMENT YOU HAVE .. SO LETS GO THERE. :0)
 
:0) I see why you're called Dr. Chuckles.

OK Dr. Chuckles .. HOW MANY COUNTRIES ARE THERE IN THE WORLD THAT DO NOT HAVE A ROTHSCHILD BANK

I don't even know what a Rothschild bank is. Second, when asked to substantiate your claims of a connection you have failed to produce any evidence, besides citations that basically repeat the accusation without supporting evidence

.. WHICH IS THE LEAST OF THE ARGUMENTS AGAINST DESTROYING A PEACEFUL NATION THAT POSED NO THREAT .. BUT IT SEEMS THE ONLY ARGUMENT YOU HAVE .. SO LETS GO THERE. :0)

What?
 
I don't even know what a Rothschild bank is.

:0) .. and there you are Mr. Chuckles. You're arguing an issue that you know absolutely nothing about, nor do you take the time to educate yourself about things you pretend to speak to authoritatively .. which is exactly what I've been saying all along.

Sorry, I just don't have the time nor inclination to bring you up to speed.
 
:0) .. and there you are Mr. Chuckles. You're arguing an issue that you know absolutely nothing about, nor do you take the time to educate yourself about things you pretend to speak to authoritatively .. which is exactly what I've been saying all along.

Or you can't actually substantiate your claims, since you have attempted to provide proof multiple times already. But all such proof has shown is a lack of ability to be critical of sources and an understanding of how proper citations work

Sorry, I just don't have the time nor inclination to bring you up to speed.

Anyone following this discussion knows this is nothing more than an excuse, given the fact that you have tried to "bring me up to speed", but your attempts to offer actual evidence were buffoonish, at best
 
'Mornin AT. :2wave: Yeah how many of his family was killed then?

the spat was over his son assaulting their servents
 
Did I miss something? Did I miss you being able to counter the so-called 'propaganda videos?'

No, you didn't / couldn't. :0)
Plenty of others have put forward their criticisms of those videos. Chuckles pointed out that it idiotically claimed that all banks are Rothschild owned, and as both he and Sherman have mentioned, it was filmed in Gaddafi territory by a source that was likely not independent of the Gaddafi regime.
Suggesting that Gaddafi was a leader of a 'global jihad' deems you seriously unlearned.

What 'global jihad' might that be?

I didn't suggest that, he did.
Gaddafi said:
I am not going to leave this land. I will die as a martyr at the end. I shall remain, defiant. Muammar is Leader of the Revolution until the end of time.

It wasn't quite a jihad in the sense that al-Qaeda wages jihad; it was more a mix of pan-Arab and pan-African nationalism combined with jihad's pathological hatred of the West.
 
You are correct Monte. British SAS and former SAS were inside Libya. As a matter of fact.....some were caught at the very beginning of the conflict, by Gadhafi.

The question for some reason still remains open.....on whether it is best to remove a dictator for the betterment of all others. Wherein stability is looked upon. So far the track record has not been stability left in the wake of trying to democratize such nations. It has been the opposite. Chaos and division of the people and whatever country.

When we look at the condition of the countries that we have removed dictators, we see major unrest and chaos as you've said. Why this is denied by so many is really strange. Why would this be denied, turn on the damn news and have a look right. So the question for me is, do we have two consecutive administrations pushing an agenda of destabilization for an end goal not readily recognized? Or do we have two consecutive administrations that are grossly incompetent? Neither one is a comforting thought. At any rate, I disagree with the notion of "regime change" for the reason that we Americans and people's in the West in general aren't told the truth to begin with. Dictators while far from benevolent are a stabilizing force. With just the example of Iraq alone, not only was the entire threat a fabrication, nothing we were told about the war was true. Don Rumsfeld Rumsfeld said WMD was in every point on the compass from Baghdad. When asked how long this war would be he said six days, six weeks, I doubt six months. When Bush was asked by congress what it would cost, he said, 80 billion. As we know, that turned out to be a mere down payment. No one asked, but had they, they would not likely have been told that it would cost us 4,500 servicemen/women's lives.

And then we have people who actually support this stuff on a humanitarian basis, but looking at the humanitarian crisis in Iraq now, is our proof of failure, and waste of blood and treasure. The safe haven (ie stability) that Christians once enjoyed in Syria, gone. There's nothing but misery in that nation now.
 
Plenty of others have put forward their criticisms of those videos. Chuckles pointed out that it idiotically claimed that all banks are Rothschild owned, and as both he and Sherman have mentioned, it was filmed in Gaddafi territory by a source that was likely not independent of the Gaddafi regime.


I didn't suggest that, he did.


It wasn't quite a jihad in the sense that al-Qaeda wages jihad; it was more a mix of pan-Arab and pan-African nationalism combined with jihad's pathological hatred of the West.

I wouldn't get bogged down on the videos. Then we're ignoring the fact that Libya lies in a state of chaos and its a matter of Western making. What started happening in Libya after Gaddafi began loosing control of increasing portions of the country is a different matter from the hyperbole that was coming from the US and others, before engagement, that was unsubstantiated by DWB and AI. Denying that US policy in the region has failed, is simply dishonest, unless of course, destabilization has been the goal!
 
When we look at the condition of the countries that we have removed dictators, we see major unrest and chaos as you've said. Why this is denied by so many is really strange. Why would this be denied, turn on the damn news and have a look right. So the question for me is, do we have two consecutive administrations pushing an agenda of destabilization for an end goal not readily recognized? Or do we have two consecutive administrations that are grossly incompetent? Neither one is a comforting thought. At any rate, I disagree with the notion of "regime change" for the reason that we Americans and people's in the West in general aren't told the truth to begin with. Dictators while far from benevolent are a stabilizing force. With just the example of Iraq alone, not only was the entire threat a fabrication, nothing we were told about the war was true. Don Rumsfeld Rumsfeld said WMD was in every point on the compass from Baghdad. When asked how long this war would be he said six days, six weeks, I doubt six months. When Bush was asked by congress what it would cost, he said, 80 billion. As we know, that turned out to be a mere down payment. No one asked, but had they, they would not likely have been told that it would cost us 4,500 servicemen/women's lives.

And then we have people who actually support this stuff on a humanitarian basis, but looking at the humanitarian crisis in Iraq now, is our proof of failure, and waste of blood and treasure. The safe haven (ie stability) that Christians once enjoyed in Syria, gone. There's nothing but misery in that nation now.



Mornin' Monte.....Yeah I am not into the nation building deal at all. Not when we need to be building our own. If there is some alterior motive we don't know about. I would think we would see some sort of pattern. I don't see it anywhere.

But I have been waiting to see all those pics of the Genocide that they say Gadhafi was committing. For some reason.....none have been able to show such Right before the West jumped him.
 
Mornin' Monte.....Yeah I am not into the nation building deal at all. Not when we need to be building our own. If there is some alterior motive we don't know about. I would think we would see some sort of pattern. I don't see it anywhere.

But I have been waiting to see all those pics of the Genocide that they say Gadhafi was committing. For some reason.....none have been able to show such Right before the West jumped him.

Hey there, yes those pics or reports are AWOL. I have no illusions that Gaddafi was a swell fella, but on the other hand, I do see a pattern, so I'm not real sure what you mean. I also don't know why Gen. Wesley Clark's testimony is dismissed, that there were seven countries targeted for regime change and true enough, several on the list he disclosed have been crossed off!
 
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