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Thread: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I would have to reread the document to be totally sure of the wording. But at the time I checked it out and it seemed a good piece of work. Also it seemed happily in line with the UN's norms. What exactly is your problem with it?

    And yes. I think it was good that the neighborhood took care of the problem arising from the unruly behavior of the dictator's subjects. And yes. I think it was right for Obama to give logistical support.
    Logistical support?? It was a violation of the resolution!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Be that as it may, France is as much to blame for overthrowing Kadaffi as the United States.
    Well sure, I wouldn't dispute that.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Update: They now have been released. Do you think the Egyptians released the one they wanted back?


    Libya says five kidnapped Egyptian diplomats freed.....


    Five Egyptian diplomats kidnapped in Tripoli in retaliation for Egypt's arrest of a Libyan militia commander have been freed, Libyan Deputy Foreign Minister Abdul Razak Al-Grady said on Sunday.

    The abduction of diplomats in the Libyan capital illustrated the fragility of government control over former rebels and militias who two years ago helped topple Muammar Gaddafi in a NATO-backed revolution.

    Gunman snatched four Egyptian diplomatic staff from their homes in Tripoli on Saturday, including the cultural attaché, and kidnapped another on Friday, forcing Cairo to evacuate its embassy and its Benghazi consulate.

    Libya's government said earlier the diplomats had been snatched in reaction to the arrest of Shaban Hadia, commander of the Operations Room of Libya's Revolutionaries, a powerful militia in Libya.

    The group said Hadia was arrested while visiting Egypt with family for medical treatment. Egypt has said he had been detained, but no details were immediately available about whether he had been freed on Sunday.

    The group was accused of briefly abducting Libyan Prime Minister Ali Zeidan in Tripoli in October last year. It initially claimed it had arrested the premier, but later denied that after he was released hours later.....snip~

    Yahoo!

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Logistical support?? It was a violation of the resolution!
    Don't you think you exaggerate to fit your ideology a bit?

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    The UN peacekeeping forces buy bananas and then trade the bananas for sex with young little starving girls.

    That's your UN at work keeping the peace while getting a piece.
    Yep! There have been scandalous things that went on. When such things happen, the persons must be punished and the controls made more robust.
    But it certainly does not discredit the mission.

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Don't you think you exaggerate to fit your ideology a bit?

    I'm not projecting an ideology. I'm telling you that Res. 1973, did not authorize regime change, period. Now you may be one that supported regime change in Libya, but it was illegal nevertheless. When you violate the law, it has consequences. In this case, due to the Wests violation of the UN resolution, both China and Libya denied the US a similar resolution for Syria on the basis that we proved (and not for the first time) we couldn't be trusted.

    Philippe Sands QC, professor of international law at University College London, warned that coalition forces were facing a "major problem" to justify their latest strikes on legal grounds and Lord Ashdown, the former high representative for Bosnia and Herzegovina, said the coalition forces led by Britain, France and the US were facing "a moment of danger" over the legality of their actions. He said "continued support for this looks as though it is leading to support for regime change, which legally is beyond the [United Nations] security council resolution".

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...resolution-law
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I'm not projecting an ideology. I'm telling you that Res. 1973, did not authorize regime change, period. Now you may be one that supported regime change in Libya, but it was illegal nevertheless. When you violate the law, it has consequences. In this case, due to the Wests violation of the UN resolution, both China and Libya denied the US a similar resolution for Syria on the basis that we proved (and not for the first time) we couldn't be trusted.

    Philippe Sands QC, professor of international law at University College London, warned that coalition forces were facing a "major problem" to justify their latest strikes on legal grounds and Lord Ashdown, the former high representative for Bosnia and Herzegovina, said the coalition forces led by Britain, France and the US were facing "a moment of danger" over the legality of their actions. He said "continued support for this looks as though it is leading to support for regime change, which legally is beyond the [United Nations] security council resolution".

    Libya: Coalition bombing may be in breach of UN resolution's legal limits | World news | The Guardian
    There are always those that take the opposite position. They are, you will find, usually political opponents to the parties taking action, ,appears to be the case here. ! Mostly the arguments rest on a manipulation of the facts or a different slant and spin. And, in fact, it would have been illegal for the British, Italians, French etc to invade in order to remove Gaddafi. But the things they did were consistent with the mandate even if the Libyens used the actions of population protection to fell the tyrant.

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    There are always those that take the opposite position. They are, you will find, usually political opponents to the parties taking action, ,appears to be the case here. ! Mostly the arguments rest on a manipulation of the facts or a different slant and spin. And, in fact, it would have been illegal for the British, Italians, French etc to invade in order to remove Gaddafi. But the things they did were consistent with the mandate even if the Libyens used the actions of population protection to fell the tyrant.
    What are you talking about, those who always take the opposite position? There was a resolution that created a no fly zone and use of force to protect civilians. The resolution explicitly denied the use of any ground forces or the supply of weapons to the rebels. Both of those were violated. Furthermore, there was no language whatsoever authorizing the overthrow of Gaddafi. This has been criticized by Russia, China, India, Brazil and South Africa. Early on in the conflict, Arab league nations that had supported the resolution, re characterized their support on the grounds that civilian populations were being targeted. And in classic US foreign policy style, the exact same type of popular democratic uprising that wrought all kinds of handwringing in the west for humanitarian reasons in Libya, was not only ignored in Bahrain, when the government attacked their own civilians, but in an attempt to secure Saudi OK, and support for western intervention in Libya, Hillary Clinton was dispatched to Saudi Arabia to assure them that the US would look the other way as they went in to crush the popular democratic uprising in Bahrain in exchange for their support in our Libyan mission.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    What are you talking about, those who always take the opposite position? There was a resolution that created a no fly zone and use of force to protect civilians. The resolution explicitly denied the use of any ground forces or the supply of weapons to the rebels. Both of those were violated. Furthermore, there was no language whatsoever authorizing the overthrow of Gaddafi. This has been criticized by Russia, China, India, Brazil and South Africa. Early on in the conflict, Arab league nations that had supported the resolution, re characterized their support on the grounds that civilian populations were being targeted. And in classic US foreign policy style, the exact same type of popular democratic uprising that wrought all kinds of handwringing in the west for humanitarian reasons in Libya, was not only ignored in Bahrain, when the government attacked their own civilians, but in an attempt to secure Saudi OK, and support for western intervention in Libya, Hillary Clinton was dispatched to Saudi Arabia to assure them that the US would look the other way as they went in to crush the popular democratic uprising in Bahrain in exchange for their support in our Libyan mission.
    Only an example: The resolution did not forbid the use of boots on the ground, as you will, if my memory does not deceive me, quickly see, when you revisit the text. The interpretation you presented was often presented by those who sided with Gaddafi at the time. But it was nonsense and even Lavarov gave up on that one.

    But why do you mention that? None of the allies put soldiers in the field other, perhaps, as observers or advisors. But why do you single out Obama, when the main players were French, Italien and British? I suspect you complain about the NSA but not the French, Spanish or Polish services?

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Only an example: The resolution did not forbid the use of boots on the ground, as you will, if my memory does not deceive me, quickly see, when you revisit the text. The interpretation you presented was often presented by those who sided with Gaddafi at the time. But it was nonsense and even Lavarov gave up on that one.

    But why do you mention that? None of the allies put soldiers in the field other, perhaps, as observers or advisors. But why do you single out Obama, when the main players were French, Italien and British? I suspect you complain about the NSA but not the French, Spanish or Polish services?
    It explicitly forbid boots on the ground and the arming of rebels. There was objections to some of the targets early on which concerned many that the US and NATO were going beyond the resolutions intent and seeking regime change.

    I am an American and live in America and therefore concern myself with American politics, policy and standing in the world. The other countries you mentioned have their own citizens that protest and object to their own countries policies.

    The efforts of Moscow and Beijing, however, have not hindered Washington and its NATO allies from breaching international law or U.N. Resolution 1973. Washington has casually admitted that the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) was on the ground supporting rebel forces. According to Washington, the involvement of U.S. intelligence agents in Libya started as soon as the U.S. embassy in Tripoli was closed. [1] February 25, 2011, is the date that the U.S. embassy in Tripoli was reported as being closed. [2]

    This is a casual omission that the U.S. had violated international law and was operating on the ground in Libya before any U.N. approval. Moreover, Italy had opened its military bases to use by the U.S., Britain, and France before any U.N. approval by repudiating its non-aggression pact with Libya on February 27, 2011. [3] In other words, the war against Libya had already begun.

    Unnamed U.S. officials even told Reuters that U.S. intelligence operations were underway in Libya before President Obama signed a secret order in March 2011 that authorized covert U.S. actions against the Libyan government. [4] The U.S. was not alone in operating in Libya. It has been reported that dozens of British agents and commandos from MI6, the Special Air Services (SAS) unit, and the Special Boat Services (SBS) units were also operating inside Libya. [5]

    These foreign forces in Libya were sent to prepare for the war by selecting targets to be bombed. [6] Even before the attacks were launched, both Britain and France even announced plans in November 2010 for war games that envisioned attacking Libya under the exercise codename “SOUTHLAND.” [7] The British and French military assets being mobilized for these drills ended up being used to attack Libya. [8] November 2010, according to the Italian journalist Franco Bechis of Italy’s Libero, also happened to be the time that Paris started planning for regime change in Libya.

    NATO’s Secret Ground War in Libya | Global Research
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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