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Thread: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

  1. #191
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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Yes, stalled after their original gains that gave the appearance they represented a significant threat to the regime

    If anyone has any actual figures on breakdown of support no one is stopping you from posting them
    The fact no popular support was picked up, was manifest in the size&scope of the NTC advance.
    Other "revolutions" need popular support to overcome a state - either by overwhelming force, or defections from the state forces. Neither of which happened here

    If it wasn't for NATO, the "revolution" would not have happened..

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I think it was the Libyans who decided on regime change, and once we saw that they were able to leverage force, and make gains against Gaddafi's security forces (all lacking in Iran), other powers decided they would support them (with the US coming in rather late). Their precarious position was only discovered later when it was realized that what many took as a mass routing was more a reorganization of the state's security forces
    Not exactly anyways. At about the same time we were getting ready to support protesters overthrowing their government in Libya, Hillary Clinton was cutting a deal with Saudi Arabia. Essentially, that we would look the other way as Saudi Arabia went in to crush the same type of uprising in Bahrain that we were wringing our hands over in Libya, in exchange for SA's support for US/NATO "intervention" in Libya.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #193
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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I think it was the Libyans who decided on regime change, and once we saw that they were able to leverage force, and make gains against Gaddafi's security forces (all lacking in Iran), other powers decided they would support them (with the US coming in rather late). Their precarious position was only discovered later when it was realized that what many took as a mass routing was more a reorganization of the state's security forces
    You're not even an honest poster brother. You claimed the Green Square protest against NATO was a mere "couple of thousand people" forced there by guns.

    You've ignored that first, it was easy to see by the naked eye that there was more than a couple thousand people .. and secondly, you've ignored all the reporting that 1.7 million Libyans, a third of the entire country, were in the square that day protesting against NATO.

    You didn't even have the honesty to acknowledge the truth.

    None of what you claim about Libya is true .. including this post.
    “No people can be both ignorant and free.”
    - Thomas Jefferson

  4. #194
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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Not exactly anyways. At about the same time we were getting ready to support protesters overthrowing their government in Libya, Hillary Clinton was cutting a deal with Saudi Arabia. Essentially, that we would look the other way as Saudi Arabia went in to crush the same type of uprising in Bahrain that we were wringing our hands over in Libya, in exchange for SA's support for US/NATO "intervention" in Libya.
    1) How does the issue of SA address anything I wrote? 2) Yes, really. The whole idea of pursuing regime change was based on events in Libya. Perception of those events might have been flawed, but that doesn't change the fact that countries like france were responding to events within Libya and what they thought was an advantages development
    Last edited by Dr. Chuckles; 02-01-14 at 01:47 PM.

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    The fact no popular support was picked up, was manifest in the size&scope of the NTC advance.
    Other "revolutions" need popular support to overcome a state - either by overwhelming force, or defections from the state forces. Neither of which happened here

    If it wasn't for NATO, the "revolution" would not have happened..
    I don't know, I can see support not manifesting in participation in a number of ways. Me, I have no idea, which is why i am interested in seeing people present measures to support their claims about where it actually rested

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    How does the issue of SA address anything I wrote?
    Loosely, in that you seemed to have supported the US action we took there.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    You're not even an honest poster brother. You claimed the Green Square protest against NATO was a mere "couple of thousand people" forced there by guns.
    Actually I asserted I had every reason to be skeptical that the gathering was organic, due to the ability and will of Gaddaffi to force people there by gun point. Subtle but key distinction

    You've ignored that first, it was easy to see by the naked eye that there was more than a couple thousand people .. and secondly, you've ignored all the reporting that 1.7 million Libyans, a third of the entire country, were in the square that day protesting against NATO.
    I don't recall making any remarks about actual numbers and if I did, i fail to see how they would address my concerns.

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Loosely, in that you seemed to have supported the US action we took there.
    1) it still wouldn't address anything I wrote

    2) what are you even talking about? I never mentioned supporting anything in SA and I made clear I was still skeptical of our actions in Libya

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I don't know, I can see support not manifesting in participation in a number of ways. Me, I have no idea, which is why i am interested in seeing people present measures to support their claims about where it actually rested
    this wasn't a populist uprising, far from it. It was the selected tribes from east Africa.

    I don't feel like looking up every square in of the war- no need - it is MANIFEST NATO had to lead/support the advances. Which directly goes against the notion of a populist/popular uprising.
    Or anything else you'd like to call this usurpation of power by the NTC, directly prosecuted by NATO..

    While we're down in the weeds of the battles, we are missing the bigger picture -Libya today.. how is that working out for the Libyans? (rhetorical -but answer if you wish)
    Oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    :0) Chuckles doesn't even know what a Rothschild bank is .. :0) That's your proof?
    Um...a bank owned by the Rothschild family? There are plenty of other banks.
    I'm sure you would have wanted any information about Gaddafi to be filmed by his enemies, or people who have no clue about Libya, like Chuckles. That amounts to 'proof' for people looking for somewhere to hide.
    Yes, I would like an independent source to verify the idea that over a million people took to the streets to protest NATO intervention. It's impossible that no western journalists would have been able to notice this. I would demand the same evidence if it was made by rebel supporters, by the way.

    Sure you did.

    "the leader of a global jihad" .. that was from you.
    Here's what I wrote, with the part that you left out
    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Can anyone who thinks that he is the modern incarnation of Abraham Lincoln and the leader of a global jihad be considered a sane person?
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal
    Proponents of a 'global jihad' is Al Qaeda .. Obama's posse. Oh no, you don't want to touch that, eh? :0)
    You mean the people he's droning
    What about the lies and deception Obama used to attack and destroy Libya?

    Let me guess .. you don't want to touch that either.

    Gaddafi was overwhelmingly supported by the Libyan people .. but, let me guess .. :0)
    That asshole got what was coming to him, for Lockerbie, La Belle, and Black September. I would advocate getting rid of him a majority of his brainwashed country did buy into his cult of personality. The fact that a sizable amount hated him and wanted democracy made intervention an even better undertaking

    Let me guess .. you were against the Iraq War. :0) That's funny.
    Let me guess...you just looked at my lean and assumed my position on the matter. I'm ambivalent on Iraq - Saddam needed to go, but I'm not sure it was worth 4000 American lives, and I think our focus should have been on Afghanistan.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

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