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Thread: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

  1. #171
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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    Did I miss something? Did I miss you being able to counter the so-called 'propaganda videos?'

    No, you didn't / couldn't. :0)
    Plenty of others have put forward their criticisms of those videos. Chuckles pointed out that it idiotically claimed that all banks are Rothschild owned, and as both he and Sherman have mentioned, it was filmed in Gaddafi territory by a source that was likely not independent of the Gaddafi regime.
    Suggesting that Gaddafi was a leader of a 'global jihad' deems you seriously unlearned.

    What 'global jihad' might that be?
    I didn't suggest that, he did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaddafi
    I am not going to leave this land. I will die as a martyr at the end. I shall remain, defiant. Muammar is Leader of the Revolution until the end of time.
    It wasn't quite a jihad in the sense that al-Qaeda wages jihad; it was more a mix of pan-Arab and pan-African nationalism combined with jihad's pathological hatred of the West.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    You are correct Monte. British SAS and former SAS were inside Libya. As a matter of fact.....some were caught at the very beginning of the conflict, by Gadhafi.

    The question for some reason still remains open.....on whether it is best to remove a dictator for the betterment of all others. Wherein stability is looked upon. So far the track record has not been stability left in the wake of trying to democratize such nations. It has been the opposite. Chaos and division of the people and whatever country.
    When we look at the condition of the countries that we have removed dictators, we see major unrest and chaos as you've said. Why this is denied by so many is really strange. Why would this be denied, turn on the damn news and have a look right. So the question for me is, do we have two consecutive administrations pushing an agenda of destabilization for an end goal not readily recognized? Or do we have two consecutive administrations that are grossly incompetent? Neither one is a comforting thought. At any rate, I disagree with the notion of "regime change" for the reason that we Americans and people's in the West in general aren't told the truth to begin with. Dictators while far from benevolent are a stabilizing force. With just the example of Iraq alone, not only was the entire threat a fabrication, nothing we were told about the war was true. Don Rumsfeld Rumsfeld said WMD was in every point on the compass from Baghdad. When asked how long this war would be he said six days, six weeks, I doubt six months. When Bush was asked by congress what it would cost, he said, 80 billion. As we know, that turned out to be a mere down payment. No one asked, but had they, they would not likely have been told that it would cost us 4,500 servicemen/women's lives.

    And then we have people who actually support this stuff on a humanitarian basis, but looking at the humanitarian crisis in Iraq now, is our proof of failure, and waste of blood and treasure. The safe haven (ie stability) that Christians once enjoyed in Syria, gone. There's nothing but misery in that nation now.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Plenty of others have put forward their criticisms of those videos. Chuckles pointed out that it idiotically claimed that all banks are Rothschild owned, and as both he and Sherman have mentioned, it was filmed in Gaddafi territory by a source that was likely not independent of the Gaddafi regime.


    I didn't suggest that, he did.


    It wasn't quite a jihad in the sense that al-Qaeda wages jihad; it was more a mix of pan-Arab and pan-African nationalism combined with jihad's pathological hatred of the West.
    I wouldn't get bogged down on the videos. Then we're ignoring the fact that Libya lies in a state of chaos and its a matter of Western making. What started happening in Libya after Gaddafi began loosing control of increasing portions of the country is a different matter from the hyperbole that was coming from the US and others, before engagement, that was unsubstantiated by DWB and AI. Denying that US policy in the region has failed, is simply dishonest, unless of course, destabilization has been the goal!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    When we look at the condition of the countries that we have removed dictators, we see major unrest and chaos as you've said. Why this is denied by so many is really strange. Why would this be denied, turn on the damn news and have a look right. So the question for me is, do we have two consecutive administrations pushing an agenda of destabilization for an end goal not readily recognized? Or do we have two consecutive administrations that are grossly incompetent? Neither one is a comforting thought. At any rate, I disagree with the notion of "regime change" for the reason that we Americans and people's in the West in general aren't told the truth to begin with. Dictators while far from benevolent are a stabilizing force. With just the example of Iraq alone, not only was the entire threat a fabrication, nothing we were told about the war was true. Don Rumsfeld Rumsfeld said WMD was in every point on the compass from Baghdad. When asked how long this war would be he said six days, six weeks, I doubt six months. When Bush was asked by congress what it would cost, he said, 80 billion. As we know, that turned out to be a mere down payment. No one asked, but had they, they would not likely have been told that it would cost us 4,500 servicemen/women's lives.

    And then we have people who actually support this stuff on a humanitarian basis, but looking at the humanitarian crisis in Iraq now, is our proof of failure, and waste of blood and treasure. The safe haven (ie stability) that Christians once enjoyed in Syria, gone. There's nothing but misery in that nation now.


    Mornin' Monte.....Yeah I am not into the nation building deal at all. Not when we need to be building our own. If there is some alterior motive we don't know about. I would think we would see some sort of pattern. I don't see it anywhere.

    But I have been waiting to see all those pics of the Genocide that they say Gadhafi was committing. For some reason.....none have been able to show such Right before the West jumped him.

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Mornin' Monte.....Yeah I am not into the nation building deal at all. Not when we need to be building our own. If there is some alterior motive we don't know about. I would think we would see some sort of pattern. I don't see it anywhere.

    But I have been waiting to see all those pics of the Genocide that they say Gadhafi was committing. For some reason.....none have been able to show such Right before the West jumped him.
    Hey there, yes those pics or reports are AWOL. I have no illusions that Gaddafi was a swell fella, but on the other hand, I do see a pattern, so I'm not real sure what you mean. I also don't know why Gen. Wesley Clark's testimony is dismissed, that there were seven countries targeted for regime change and true enough, several on the list he disclosed have been crossed off!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Mornin' Monte.....Yeah I am not into the nation building deal at all. Not when we need to be building our own. If there is some alterior motive we don't know about. I would think we would see some sort of pattern. I don't see it anywhere.

    But I have been waiting to see all those pics of the Genocide that they say Gadhafi was committing. For some reason.....none have been able to show such Right before the West jumped him.
    That's because it never happened .. like Susan Rice's Viagra rape story .. they just pulled it out of their asses and shoved it into the mouths of their minions.
    “No people can be both ignorant and free.”
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Or you can't actually substantiate your claims, since you have attempted to provide proof multiple times already. But all such proof has shown is a lack of ability to be critical of sources and an understanding of how proper citations work



    Anyone following this discussion knows this is nothing more than an excuse, given the fact that you have tried to "bring me up to speed", but your attempts to offer actual evidence were buffoonish, at best
    You've got it all twisted sir. I have no desire to bring you up to anything. Anyone who is paying attention knows that you don't know what you're talking about .. which I've said from the beginning and have enjoyed demonstrating. :0)
    “No people can be both ignorant and free.”
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Plenty of others have put forward their criticisms of those videos. Chuckles pointed out that it idiotically claimed that all banks are Rothschild owned, and as both he and Sherman have mentioned, it was filmed in Gaddafi territory by a source that was likely not independent of the Gaddafi regime.
    :0) Chuckles doesn't even know what a Rothschild bank is .. :0) That's your proof?

    I'm sure you would have wanted any information about Gaddafi to be filmed by his enemies, or people who have no clue about Libya, like Chuckles. That amounts to 'proof' for people looking for somewhere to hide.


    I didn't suggest that, he did.
    Sure you did.

    "the leader of a global jihad" .. that was from you.

    Proponents of a 'global jihad' is Al Qaeda .. Obama's posse. Oh no, you don't want to touch that, eh? :0)

    What about the lies and deception Obama used to attack and destroy Libya?

    Let me guess .. you don't want to touch that either.

    Gaddafi was overwhelmingly supported by the Libyan people .. but, let me guess .. :0)

    Let me guess .. you were against the Iraq War. :0) That's funny.

    Typical war-mongering thought ..
    “No people can be both ignorant and free.”
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    American Jihad 2014: The New Fundamentalists
    excerpts

    Like other religious institutions in their heyday, the NSS has also shown a striking ability to generate support for its ever-growing structure by turning itself into a lucrative global operation. In a world where genuine enemies are in remarkably short supply (though you’d never know it from the gospel according to them), it has exhibited remarkable skill in rallying those who might support it financially, whether they call themselves Democrats or Republicans, and ensuring, even in budgetary tough times, that its coffers will continue to burst at the seams.

    After all, if the twenty-first century has taught us anything, it’s that the most expensive and over-equipped military on the planet can’t win a war. Its two multi-trillion-dollar attempts since 9/11, in Iraq and Afghanistan, both against lightly armed minority insurgencies, proved disasters. (In Iraq, however, despite an ignominious U.S. pullout and the chaos that has followed in the region, the NSS and its supporters have continued to promote the idea that General David Petraeus’s “surge” was indeed some kind of historic last-minute “victory.”)

    After 12 long years in Afghanistan and an Obama era surge in that country, the latest grim National Intelligence Estimate from the U.S. intelligence community suggests that no matter what Washington now does, the likelihood is that things there will only go from bad enough to far worse. Years of a drone campaign against al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has strengthened that organization; an air intervention in Libya led to chaos, a dead ambassador, and a growing al-Qaeda movement in northern Africa -- and so it repetitively goes.
    American Jihad 2014: The New Fundamentalists
    “No people can be both ignorant and free.”
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Worse Than Iraq: Lies of the Libyan War

    As exposed here on CounterPunch the lies used to justify the NATO war against Libya have surpassed those created to justify the invasion of Iraq. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch both had honest observers on the ground for months following the rebellion in eastern Libya and both have repudiated every major charge used to justify the NATO war on Libya. According to the Amnesty observer, who is fluent in Arabic, there is not one confirmed instance of rape by the pro-Gadaffi fighters, not even a doctor who knew of one. All the Viagra mass rape stories were fabrications. Amnesty could not verify a single "African mercenary" fighting for Gaddafi story, and the highly charged international satellite television accounts of African mercenaries raping women that were used to panic much of the eastern Libyan population into fleeing their homes were fabrications.

    There were no confirmed accounts of helicopter gun ships attacking civilians and no jet fighters bombing people which completely invalidates any justification for the No-Fly Zone in Security Council resolution used as an excuse for NATO to launch its attacks on Libya. After three months on the ground in rebel controlled territory, the Amnesty investigator could only confirm 110 deaths in Benghazi which included Gadaffi supporters. Only 110 dead in Benghazi? Wait a minute, we were told thousands had died there, ten thousand even. No, only 110 lost their lives including pro-government people.

    No rapes, no African mercenaries, no helicopter gun ships or bombers, and only 110 ten deaths prior to the launch of the NATO bombing campaign, every reason was based on a lie.

    much more
    Lies of the Libyan War » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
    “No people can be both ignorant and free.”
    - Thomas Jefferson

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