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Thread: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

  1. #131
    Educator BlackAsCoal's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    you're quoting front page magazine, a publication I'm sure montecristo and yourself would easily recognize the faults with if we were discussing any other subject. And while I question the rational of supporting the Libyan opposition, the idea of citing popularity figures for Gaddafi in territory he held is rather mung headed given his style of rule. The same with citing his popularity among african leaders. Being that he was known as a revolutionary force and supporter, much like Castro (who mandela also supported). And such popularity doesn't translate to the idea that he was a just leader of his people.

    And while he did take an iron hand approach to addressing jihadists within his country, he did the same to any opposition force, be it socialist, democratic, or anarchist. He was a violent dictator, no questions about it. And that hardly changes due to the fact that he spent some of the oil wealth, that he used to fuel an insanely extravagant lifestyle and considered little more than his own personal piggy bank, to deliver health care to his preferred populations
    Maybe you think only the Queen of England has support worth mentioning, but I don't. He was supported overwhelmingly by Libyan citizens, but you think that doesn't count.

    He was supported bt African leaders as seen as one of their own .. but you think that doesn't count.

    You think because you've been convinced that he was a 'violent leader' that qualifies him for regime change .. but I don't.

    Maybe you should just post the things that you think are important .. more important than Libyan citizens .. and I'll post all the things I think important, including the wishes of the Libyan people.

    And by the way, a violent leader is the one who destroys a once prosperous nation based on lies and deception. Let me guess, you didn't know that.

    Today, Libya has been destroyed by Obama and his Al Queda posse. Surely you must see that as a good thing.

    Front Page Magazine .. are you of the opinion that only Front Page tells of Obama's unquestioned relationship with Al Queda .. or his attempt to use Al Queda against the Syrian people?
    Last edited by BlackAsCoal; 01-29-14 at 05:54 PM.
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  2. #132
    Educator BlackAsCoal's Avatar
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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Muammar Gaddafi - Wikiquote
    Do these look like statements that a mentally healthy person would make, let alone a leader of a "free" country? Gaddafi was a bat**** crazy narcissist, infatuated with himself till the very end, very much like Hitler. His delusions led him to believe he was a leader in an Islamic revolution against the evil West (sound familiar?), and so he supported international terrorism and even blew up a plane over Scotland. He was a sick creep, and a self-admitted enemy of the US, and so we had the right to do whatever we wanted to him - including supporting a transitional council that is now taking its turn in fighting al-Qaeda.
    In other words, you have no answers for the questions I asked.
    “No people can be both ignorant and free.”
    - Thomas Jefferson

  3. #133
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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    Maybe you think only the Queen of England has support worth mentioning, but I don't. He was supported overwhelmingly by Libyan citizens, but you think that doesn't count.
    No, I'm pointing out that your evidence of this support is highly suspect. There is a difference there

    He was supported bt African leaders as seen as one of their own .. but you think that doesn't count.
    As I just explained, being supported by other leaders does not make him a just ruler of his people and country

    You think because you've been convinced that he was a 'violent leader' that qualifies him for regime change .. but I don't.
    Hey, Genius, I wrote in the reply you just quoted that "I question the rational of supporting the Libyan opposition". What I don't do is go through mental gymnastics to deny the fact that he was a violent dictator, like you

    Maybe you should just post the things that you think are important .. more important than Libyan citizens .. and I'll post all the things I think important, including the wishes of the Libyan people.
    Again, the issue is those opinions are rather suspect. It's like citing polling provided by the kim regime in NK. Naturally haven't the threat of force over hanging any vocal opposition and an inability to audit the findings, makes accuracy a very real concern

    And by the way, a violent leader is the one who destroys a once prosperous nation based on lies and deception. Let me guess, you didn't know that.
    Your comparing remarks I made about how Qaddafi treats and views his own citizens to the impact of foreign policy we are actively questioning the merits of. It's obviously a false equivocation.

    Today, Libya has been destroyed by Obama and his Al Queda posse. Surely you must see that as a good thing.
    I think the impact of nato was largely negligible, the opposition was obviously a mixed bag, since hardliners are not currently in power, and your excusing and dismissing the impact Qaddafi loyalist forces had

  4. #134
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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No, I'm pointing out that your evidence of this support is highly suspect. There is a difference there
    There is not only strong and GLARING evidence of Gaddafi's support from the Libyan people, there are also ample reasons WHY they supported him .. reasons that those who oppose him and support the destruction of Libya run away from. I've yet to hear a sane and logical challenge to that evidence .. including from you.

    As I just explained, being supported by other leaders does not make him a just ruler of his people and country
    I never said that it did .. but there is plenty on the table that defines him as a just leader that you don't want to talk about.

    Hey, Genius, I wrote in the reply you just quoted that "I question the rational of supporting the Libyan opposition". What I don't do is go through mental gymnastics to deny the fact that he was a violent dictator, like you
    What you don't want to do and haven't done yet, is to talk about how Gaddafi changed his country from being among the poorest in the world to having a high standard of living, nor do you want to talk about the obvious benefits he provided to his people.

    Again, the issue is those opinions are rather suspect. It's like citing polling provided by the kim regime in NK. Naturally haven't the threat of force over hanging any vocal opposition and an inability to audit the findings, makes accuracy a very real concern
    :0) The only thing 'suspect' is you thinking your biased opinion counts more than the Libyan people .. but then again, you would, wouldn't you.

    Perhaps you missed this part .. LIBYA IS NOW DESTROYED AND IN RUINS, THANKS TO OBAMA AND HIS TERRORISTS BAND OF MURDERERS. Maybe you'd like to point out how much better Libyans are today then before the cowboy came riding into town. Would you like to do that?

    No?

    No surprises there.

    Your comparing remarks I made about how Qaddafi treats and views his own citizens to the impact of foreign policy we are actively questioning the merits of. It's obviously a false equivocation.
    I'm comparing the destruction of Libya to the destruction of Iraq. I'm saying that there is little difference. With all due respect, you don't appear to have enough information to assess the foreign policy that you're attempting to.

    I think the impact of nato was largely negligible, the opposition was obviously a mixed bag, since hardliners are not currently in power, and your excusing and dismissing the impact Qaddafi loyalist forces had
    You make my above point about your lack of information .. Mr. Genius. Gaddafi would have easily defeated the terrorists without NATO and the cowboy .. which is why they stepped in.

    .. sigline
    Last edited by BlackAsCoal; 01-29-14 at 09:17 PM.
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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    There is not only strong and GLARING evidence of Gaddafi's support from the Libyan people, there are also ample reasons WHY they supported him ..
    Then inform on what your claim for support is based on: for some reason I am assuming that it's based on something that wasn't independently verifiable.

    reasons that those who oppose him and support the destruction of Libya run away from. I've yet to hear a sane and logical challenge to that evidence .. including from you.
    I'm sure we can find positive benefits to every state ruler, regardless of how much of an authoriterian asshole they are. So i'm really lost on why you would even assume such proves anything

    I never said that it did .. but there is plenty on the table that defines him as a just leader that you don't want to talk about.
    lol, then what were you trying to imply by citing it?


    What you don't want to do and haven't done yet, is to talk about how Gaddafi changed his country from being among the poorest in the world to having a high standard of living, nor do you want to talk about the obvious benefits he provided to his people.
    I'm well aware of those things, but I am also aware of his various human rights abuses and behavior indicative of a dictator who views his country and it's wealth as his personal play thing.

    Perhaps you missed this part .. LIBYA IS NOW DESTROYED AND IN RUINS, THANKS TO OBAMA AND HIS TERRORISTS BAND OF MURDERERS.
    No, it was something I directly addressed, just like your claim for popular support


    You make my above point about your lack of information .. Mr. Genius. Gaddafi would have easily defeated the terrorists without NATO and the cowboy .. which is why they stepped in.
    There was plenty of collateral damage before any foreign support was given. Though i do agree that it would have ended much sooner and with the rebels losing. Though I doubt nato not supporting them would have amounted to the various other interested parties not stepping in on their own.


    I'm comparing the destruction of Libya to the destruction of Iraq. I'm saying that there is little difference. With all due respect, you don't appear to have enough information to assess the foreign policy that you're attempting to.
    that doesn't even make sense as a reply

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Then inform on what your claim for support is based on: for some reason I am assuming that it's based on something that wasn't independently verifiable.
    I've already CLEARLY stated it several times .. but you can keep pretending that you didn't see it. :0) But the reason that you don't know it is because you're ignorant of all things Libya. I posted a video of some of it .. but again, you can pretend you don't see it.

    Ever heard of the Great Man-Made River and what it does for people throughout the region? Of course not.

    I don't see the need for us to continue this conversation. :0) I'm good with whatever you choose to believe .. and run away from.
    “No people can be both ignorant and free.”
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    I've already CLEARLY stated it several times .. but you can keep pretending that you didn't see it.
    Ok, so your only evidence of this support is the rally held in Qaddafi controlled territory and where no one knows how it was organized and where people were not free to talk to the individuals involved? Given the man's history of using force on his own people and constructing a beneficial image with propoghanda, i hope you can understand why people are skeptical of it as proof of anything

    Ever heard of the Great Man-Made River and what it does for people throughout the region? Of course not.
    from above: "I'm sure we can find positive benefits to every state ruler, regardless of how much of an authoriterian asshole they are. So i'm really lost on why you would even assume such proves anything"

    I don't see the need for us to continue this conversation. :0) I'm good with whatever you choose to believe.
    being that you would simply ignore my replies, I'm not sure it was ever a "conversation" ...

  8. #138
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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Ok, so your only evidence of this support is the rally held in Qaddafi controlled territory and where no one knows how it was organized and where people were not free to talk to the individuals involved? Given the man's history of using force on his own people and constructing a beneficial image with propoghanda, i hope you can understand why people are skeptical of it as proof of anything
    Pick out all the things in this video that weren't true ..



    Can you see it now?

    from above: "I'm sure we can find positive benefits to every state ruler, regardless of how much of an authoriterian asshole they are. So i'm really lost on why you would even assume such proves anything"
    :0) Then just ignore anything you don't want to see. Exponential benefits to his people .. don't prove anything to you.

    Incredible

    being that you would simply ignore my replies, I'm not sure it was ever a "conversation" ...
    It never was a conversation. You've ignored everything you don't want to see .. and your responses were far from a conversation.

    Do you have free healthcare and education cradle-to-grave? Of course not.

    I'll say again, I'm real comfortable with you believing anything you want .. just as Bush supporters did. No difference.
    “No people can be both ignorant and free.”
    - Thomas Jefferson

  9. #139
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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    Pick out all the things in this video that weren't true ..
    1) I skimmed the first 4 minutes of the video an nowhere does it address the issue you were responding to.

    2) It also laughingly claims that all western state banks are owned by the Rothschild family (3:13) ...


    Then just ignore anything you don't want to see. Exponential benefits to his people .. don't prove anything to you.
    Yes, they do not establish your claims of popular support. What don't you get about that?


    It never was a conversation. You've ignored everything you don't want to see .. and your responses were far from a conversation.

    Do you have free healthcare and education cradle-to-grave? Of course not.

    I'll say again, I'm real comfortable with you believing anything you want .. just as Bush supporters did. No difference.
    I actually keep addressing everything you post. You on the other hand simply ignore what I write and basically repeat yourself

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    Re: Egyptian embassy staff "seized" in Libya

    lol, that video basically claims the libyan civil war as a jewish banking plot.

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