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Thread: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    I'd like to see evidence that the hospital "is driven by an anti-choice agenda."

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I'd like to see evidence that the hospital "is driven by an anti-choice agenda."
    They misapplied the law.
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I'd like to see evidence that the hospital "is driven by an anti-choice agenda."
    I think perhaps "driven by an anti-choice agenda" is overstating or misstating.

    I am not sure of what, but I think it is possible that they succumbed to those perceived pressures.

    No real "evidence"...but it does not make sense that they would not pronounce the woman dead back when they knew she died on November 28th 2013. Why would they fail to do what was proper medically and pronounce her? If the law applied to dead people like many (especially the pro-life people) were saying, then, let the court interpret. The bottom line is that these are highly educated individuals that know she was dead and the only medically proper thing was to pronounce her. They intentionally made a decision not to do what was medically appropriate.

    Someone here equated this situation to organ donation - how they will leave the deceased on machines in harvest the organs. Well the time of death in organ donation is the time brain death is declared. Not the time the harvest the organs a few hours later. But the pronouncement comes first, then the harvesting.

    These are not laypeople. These are internists, neurologists, obstetricians .......they likely knew better and should have told the hospital hierarchy that it was wrong to withhold the pronouncement of death. But my guess is the hospital administrators knew what was medically proper and succumbed to other pressures or perceived pressures.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    What you simply refuse to understand is that this is not a simple case of 'honoring' or 'not honoring' the family's wishes. There is a law in that state which mandates a pregnant woman be maintained on life support until the fetus is viable.
    I understand every aspect of this issue. I've been arguing for several days that the hospital is only following the law as they're required to do, so your accusation that I "refuse to understand" is just so much bunk and simply reflects that you haven't been following the discussion or my comments within it.

    As for this law, it wouldn't occur in Canada because we have no laws related to abortion and/or the status of a fetus. We leave it to medical doctors and their patients to determine individual healthcare needs and requirements not, politicians and the religious dictating to others.
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    As for this law, it wouldn't occur in Canada because we have no laws related to abortion and/or the status of a fetus. We leave it to medical doctors and their patients to determine individual healthcare needs and requirements not, politicians and the religious dictating to others.
    Oh the moral decay!

    I may be personally against abortion, but it was never ever my place to get in between a decision between a woman and her doctor.

    Good for Canada.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    If the doctors are complying with a law that says they must keep the woman alive, yes, the hospital can charge. Wouldn't it be convenient when you got tired of granny, just to take her to a hospital as say, 'just go ahead and kill her?'
    She has been dead since November 28th, 2013. They were not keeping her alive.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This woman was not on life support for an illness or disease. She did not have a treatable condition. She was for all intended purposes: dead.
    Who gives a **** about any of that? Yeah - brain death is death, and she's dead.

    Her kid isn't. Her kid should have treatment.

    The judge's ruling in this case is nonsensical, according to what I have read it says that as a matter of law a brain dead patient can't be pregnant. That's absurd and it's obscene.

    Nothing that takes place at this point will cause one iota of harm to the deceased. The right thing to do is to treat the patient you can treat.

    It's ridiculous that this isn't the legal standard, regardless of jurisdiction.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 01-26-14 at 01:07 PM.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    She has been dead since November 28th, 2013. They were not keeping her alive.
    With her brain death, Mrs. Munoz died on 11-28-13. Brain death is a fatal and permanent pathophysiological condition. Without the brain, the rest of the body is just so much tissue, the organism will invariably die without artificial intervention and even that intervention cannot stop the inevitable... which is why we consider brain death to be death.

    However, you are still half-wrong - life support was keeping the rest of her body alive, which means her kid was still getting oxygen and nutrition.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 01-26-14 at 01:10 PM.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    No, no! That is what Obamacare is for. Now, EVERYONE can afford insurance.
    The problem is not the ACA. The problem is the states that feel that it is a good thing to screw over the poor. Maenad I know some working-poor people who are going to have to make some very tough decisions because Republican governors chose not to let them be able to reasonably afford insurance.
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    The problem is not the ACA. The problem is the states that feel that it is a good thing to screw over the poor. Maenad I know some working-poor people who are going to have to make some very tough decisions because Republican governors chose not to let them be able to reasonably afford insurance.
    You cannot access insurance in states that did not decide to pay for the federal PPACA program?

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