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Thread: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

  1. #161
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    You're right, of course, that this would not happen here in Canada. The cost of care is seldom a determining factor in hospital care of the critically ill. We do, however, have cases where prolonged life support is challenged by hospitals in court when a family refuses to accept the advice/recommendation of doctors to remove artificial means. In a case like this, in Canada, I believe the hospital would have honoured the family's wishes and ended life support almost immediately or at least within days. But then, we don't have this big pro-life/pro-choice hornets nest of competing legislation/jurisdictions that they do in the US.
    What you simply refuse to understand is that this is not a simple case of 'honoring' or 'not honoring' the family's wishes. There is a law in that state which mandates a pregnant woman be maintained on life support until the fetus is viable.
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I think the misapplication of Texas law is pretty telling. Usually, when one side cites unrelated and irrelevant laws, there is a hidden ideological agenda. On the left, we have the extreme Vegan/ALF-types. They'll go as far as citing the UN Human Rights charter in order to justify their attacks on animal research labs. On the right, there are the extreme pro-life types who'll cite laws concerning fully developed, biologically independent and sentient human beings and apply them to zygotes. This forum is full of them. You'll catch fundy Christians going on and on about the UN Human Rights Charter applies to a clump of cells. After many such incidents, you start noticing a pattern.

    What I think is far more telling is the kind of people this case has brought out of the woodwork. At no point did they consider any of the actual medical data, the emotions of the people around this woman and the very real possibility that this fetus would suffer horrible health conditions if it even made it to birth. All that mattered was that it be "given a chance" to live. It didn't matter the real world implications as long as the hospital could exercise what is clearly an anti-choice agenda. This brings the question: What kind of sick twisted mind supports incubating an egg inside of a zombie to maintain what is clearly religious-political stance? Doesn't matter now. The case is done, the judge has spoken and the hospital has been found to be in the wrong.
    You are right, they considered none of that. The only consideration was the LAW that states a pregnant woman MUST be maintained on life support until the fetus is viable.

    And if they had NOT considered that, they would all be in jail and/or without their license to practice. You don't just shirk off the law and do what you damn well please.
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  3. #163
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    That's what they said about Karen Quinlan. But she lived another 10 years after the life support was stopped.

    Karen Ann Quinlan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I'm really sorry to burst your little bubble, but you simply don't have the ability to call those absolutes. And certainly not based on something you read. A person on life support still has vital signs. The person may be brain dead (flat EEG), but unless and until the life support is disconnected the person is not dead and, like Karen Quinlan, may not even die at that point. The person who wrote out her death certificate with her still on life support should lose his medical license. That was one of the most unethical things I've ever heard of.
    She was not fully brain dead.

    Bubble burst averted.
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    She was not fully brain dead.

    Bubble burst averted.
    Define 'fully brain dead.'
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    You are right, they considered none of that. The only consideration was the LAW that states a pregnant woman MUST be maintained on life support until the fetus is viable.

    And if they had NOT considered that, they would all be in jail and/or without their license to practice. You don't just shirk off the law and do what you damn well please.
    Judge gives hospital until Monday to remove brain-dead pregnant woman

    Hospital officials have said they were bound by the Texas Advance Directives Act, which prohibits withdrawal of life-sustaining treatment from a pregnant patient. But in his brief ruling, Wallace said that “Mrs. Munoz is dead,” meaning that the hospital was misapplying the law. The ruling did not mention the fetus.

    The hospital has not pronounced her dead and has continued to treat her over the objections of both Erick Munoz and her parents, who sat together in court Friday.
    Just so you understand, at no point was the hospital following the law. It misapplied the law. For you to continue to state that what the hospital was doing was somehow following the law is absolutely ridiculous given the ruling given. The hospital is driven by an anti-choice agenda.
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Judge gives hospital until Monday to remove brain-dead pregnant woman



    Just so you understand, at no point was the hospital following the law. It misapplied the law. For you to continue to state that what the hospital was doing was somehow following the law is absolutely ridiculous given the ruling given. The hospital is driven by an anti-choice agenda.
    Well, that's nice for hubby so he can be rid of her. But they might want to wait until all appeals are exhausted before they pull the plug. Just sayin'.

    Here is the Texas Advance Directive. It contains a disclaimer which invalidates it if the woman is pregnant:

    HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE CHAPTER 166. ADVANCE DIRECTIVES

    "I understand that under Texas law this directive has no effect if I have been diagnosed as pregnant."

    And that is what the patient signed if she had an advance directive. It really doesn't get more plain than that. The judge can say what he wants, his 'say' may not be the final say.

    Texas is one of 12 states that bar disconnecting a pregnant woman from life support:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...pport/4370971/

    Just so you understand........
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Well, that's nice for hubby so he can be rid of her. But they might want to wait until all appeals are exhausted before they pull the plug. Just sayin'.

    Here is the Texas Advance Directive. It contains a disclaimer which invalidates it if the woman is pregnant:

    HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE CHAPTER 166. ADVANCE DIRECTIVES

    "I understand that under Texas law this directive has no effect if I have been diagnosed as pregnant."

    And that is what the patient signed if she had an advance directive. It really doesn't get more plain than that. The judge can say what he wants, his 'say' may not be the final say.

    Just so you understand........
    You can't possibly be serious. You do realize that life sustaining treatment is for people who are... you know... alive? This is why the law was being misapplied to begin with:

    Compassion and Support - End-of-Life and Palliative Care Planning, MOLST for New York State

    Life sustaining treatment replaces or supports ailing bodily function. When people have treatable conditions, life support is used temporarily until the illness or disease can be stabilized and the body can resume normal functioning. At times, the body never regains the ability to function without life support or life-sustaining treatment.
    This woman was not on life support for an illness or disease. She did not have a treatable condition. She was for all intended purposes: dead. Anti-choicers tried to turn her body into an incubation chamber under a law they misapplied.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    If the doctors are complying with a law that says they must keep the woman alive, yes, the hospital can charge. Wouldn't it be convenient when you got tired of granny, just to take her to a hospital as say, 'just go ahead and kill her?'
    Brain dead is dead.

    I gave you a link to the Uniform Determination of Death Act.

    She does not need to be "killed"

    She is dead.


    She has been dead since November 28th 2013 according to the hospital.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Well, that's nice for hubby so he can be rid of her. But they might want to wait until all appeals are exhausted before they pull the plug. Just sayin'.

    Here is the Texas Advance Directive. It contains a disclaimer which invalidates it if the woman is pregnant:

    HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE CHAPTER 166. ADVANCE DIRECTIVES

    "I understand that under Texas law this directive has no effect if I have been diagnosed as pregnant."

    And that is what the patient signed if she had an advance directive. It really doesn't get more plain than that. The judge can say what he wants, his 'say' may not be the final say.

    Texas is one of 12 states that bar disconnecting a pregnant woman from life support:

    Texas hospital won't unplug brain-dead pregnant woman

    Just so you understand........
    The judge acknowledged that the law they were using to keep here plugged up to the machine is NOT APPPLICABLE because she is DEAD. She has been dead since November 28th 2013.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Define 'fully brain dead.'
    Quinlin was PVS. Persistent vegetative state. Awake but not aware. Lights on, no one is home.

    Not close to brain dead. Very damaged, not dead. She had the ability to breath - that negates (amoungst other criteria) the idea of brain death.

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