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Thread: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Not if you're a member of the working poor in a state that won't expand Medicaid, such as Texas.
    Damn pesky constitution.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Medicine has the principal of do no harm and protect life. Heck, the Hippocratic Oath forbids abortion. Now, abortion is a reality of medicine, but the premise is not to kill.

    And I do know biology, never once did I suggest that a fetus was going to survive without the living mother... My "logic" is that fetuses, as human lives, should be protected and life preserved. In cases where a life can be saved, it should be done. The mother was brain dead, the fetus could have possibly been brought to term and life support then withdrawn. Being brain dead and on life support does not mean the body is rotting in the sense of physical death. Her body is living, but her brain is dead. Machines kept her functioning. As I said, I don't know the case in detail, but if there was a chance of having the child brought to viability and then C-sectioned it should be done to preserve one life instead of ending 2.

    If you must know, I'm a published scientist, current doctoral student and have my bachelors degree in molecular biology. Don't try to spin your philosophy that a human fetus should have no protection as me not knowing biology. A large part of the reason that I am pro-life is because I'm educated on biology and I know that the fetus is an individual human life, not some inhuman clump of cells as many would call it. You might want to be careful when applying a "you don't know x" to people that disagree with your ethical views on human life and human value.
    The hospital's "decision" to try and keep the fetus alive had nothing to do with life&death and everything to do with some a-hole administrator trying to engage in politics.
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    The hospital's "decision" to try and keep the fetus alive had nothing to do with life&death and everything to do with some a-hole administrator trying to engage in politics.
    I'll look forward to your providing details to support your claim here. Earlier in this thread Removable Mind said that this was about a "pro-life" administrator, and I'll look forward to the details about this too.

    A name would be a terrific start.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Medicine has the principal of do no harm and protect life. Heck, the Hippocratic Oath forbids abortion. Now, abortion is a reality of medicine, but the premise is not to kill.
    The Hippocratic oath forbids use of abortion remedies.

    There was no abortion in this case.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Not if you're a member of the working poor in a state that won't expand Medicaid, such as Texas.
    No, no! That is what Obamacare is for. Now, EVERYONE can afford insurance.
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    It was cut and dry. The law clearly pertained to an incapacitated pregnant patient who cannot speak for herself. This woman was DEAD. And the judge was clear that the law did not pertain to a dead patient.
    A person on life support is not dead. I am a nurse. I think I know dead. The person is being kept alive with life support. A dead person has no pulse, blood pressure, heartbeat, or respirations. This woman has all that because of the life support she is on.
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Except doctor don't practice philosophy, they practice medicine- BIG difference. The FETUS isn't the same as an adult male, in the hospital or a court of law. The fetus was not viable at the time of the mother's death. (You don't know biology as well as you think)

    This wasn't about the wishes of the hospital, but the wishes of the family. You are bending 'logic' like the comparison of cutting off a leg being the same as terminating a pregnancy. In the adult male the priority for who gets to decide end of life is not the hospital to be first, they don't get a 'X reason" to deny.

    Are you truly sure the dead woman would remain functional enough for long enough to carry the fetus past 24 weeks and not produce a badly deformed baby? The woman's body will continue to deteriorate because she isn't in a coma, she is dead. Big difference on what happens to the body. that dead body passes fluids to the fetus, it isn't a 'closed' system. (this is why women should be very careful what medications they take while pregnant.)

    You Sir, don't know biology....
    It was truly wrong for someone to call this woman dead. As long as she has vital signs she is NOT dead. She may be 'brain dead' (flat EEG), but, in spite of what her husband claims to smell, she is not decaying because her body is still functioning with life support. You people calling her 'dead' are off the deep end.
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    As I noted in my comments, in reference to the article, the hospital only came to the decision that the fetus was no longer viable either today or very recently. As such, the hospital, in effect, supported the petition of the husband in court. That is why the judge ruled in his favour.

    In my view, there's no need to be disgusted with the hospital for following the law and trying to save the fetus - that's honorable. It's also honorable that when they determined the fetus could not survive, they joined the petition to remove life support. I would hope that every hospital could be so ethical and honorable when dealing with difficult situations such as this.
    I can agree with this. But I cannot help but think of a situation that would not not happen to either of us because of our universal medical system. Say this woman did not have health insurance, or that the insurance would not pay to prolong this woman's life... can a hospital force a family to pay for the care of a loved one when it goes against their wishes?
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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    A person on life support is not dead. I am a nurse. I think I know dead. The person is being kept alive with life support. A dead person has no pulse, blood pressure, heartbeat, or respirations. This woman has all that because of the life support she is on.
    This person who you claim is not dead would never ever be able to function without any artificial help. That is dead.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Judge: brain-dead pregnant woman to be removed from life support

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    The hospital's "decision" to try and keep the fetus alive had nothing to do with life&death and everything to do with some a-hole administrator trying to engage in politics.
    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I'll look forward to your providing details to support your claim here. Earlier in this thread Removable Mind said that this was about a "pro-life" administrator, and I'll look forward to the details about this too.

    A name would be a terrific start.
    The hospital has acknowledged that she was dead (brain dead) November 28th 2013, but did not formally pronounce her. It would have been medically correct and accurate to do. In medicine you do not misdiagnose to suit a law. You diagnose correctly (in this case death) and if you need to seek clarification of what to do, then you seek an immediate remedy from a judge. It is this lack of placing a known diagnosis (or pronouncement) that makes this case seem like there were possibly other motivations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    A person on life support is not dead. I am a nurse. I think I know dead. The person is being kept alive with life support. A dead person has no pulse, blood pressure, heartbeat, or respirations. This woman has all that because of the life support she is on.
    I think you need to study up on the Uniform Determination of Death Act. Properly diagnosed brain death is death. A patient on a ventilator can be dead with a pulse. Not unusual.

    Determination of Death Act Summary

    I hope that helps.

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