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Thread: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional[W:183]

  1. #161
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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Vast majority is not all, therefore equal protection is not satisfied.
    I was not referencing those contracts.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    What "benefit, privilege, or right" is banned here?
    Here are a couple.

    1. My wife works for a State University, as her spouse, when we retire I'm eligible to receive a portion of her retirement under Survivor Benefits. That cannot be contracted and it is not eligible even to a legal spouse of the same gender (but since I'm a different gender it is.)

    2. Under Virginia law as a Civilly Married couple I am considered her primary beneficiary (and she mine), therefore we are automatically the inheritors of the estate. That is not the case for same-sex couples, even if they have a Will - other members of the family can challenge the will in court, something that a married couple does not have to worry about.

    3. Since we are legal spouses, then each is eligible (under state law) to be a participant in the others health insurance benefit. A requirement not applicable to same-sex couples. Even then if the employer chooses to provide such coverage then. Even if they do offer such coverage the premiums are not treated the same. For my wife and I the premiums are considered a non-taxable benefit, however for a same-sex couple the additional premiums (even if paid by the employer) are considered taxable income for the employee changing their "income" and therefore "taxes" owed.

    4. As previously mentioned "spousal privilege" is not available under contract, only to legal spouses.

    5. Often Veteran's Cemeteries are administered by the State in conjunction with the Department of Veteran's affairs. Veteran's (which I am) are eligible for a cemetery plot in a Veteran's Cemetery and their legal spouse is also eligible for internment next to their spouse. This is available only under Civil Marriage, not private contract.

    6. States have what are called "Assumed Parentage" laws whereby when a woman gives birth to a child, the legal spouse is automatically a legal parent. This cannot be duplicated through a "contract", in the case of a same-sex couple - the other "parent" would have to go through lengthy and expensive adoption procedures to become a legal parent.


    Those are a few off the top of my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    The bolded part does not negate thr vast majority of contracts existing outside the state.

    Again you miss the point, there are no legal contracts that exsist "outside the state", all legal contracts exist within the structure of state law as the state is the enforcer of contracts. If a party renegs on a contract, the other party then obtains enforcement of the provisions through the judicial system - a part of the state government.



    >>>>

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Here are a couple.

    1. My wife works for a State University, as her spouse, when we retire I'm eligible to receive a portion of her retirement under Survior Benefits. That cannot be contracted and it not eligible even to a legal spouse of the same gender (but since I'm a different gender it is.)

    2. Under Virginia law as a Civilly Married couple I am considered her primary beneficiary (and she mine), therefore we are automatically the inheretors of the estate. That is not the case for same-sex couples, even if they have a Will - other members of the family can challenge the will in court, something that a married couple does not have to worry about.

    3. Since we are legal spouses, then each is eligible (under state law) to be a participant in the others health insurance benefit. A requirement not applicable to same-sex couples. Even then if the employer chooses to provide such coverage then. Even if they do offer such coverage the premiums are not treated the same. For my wife and I the premiums are considered a non-taxable benefit, however for a same-sex couple the additional premiums (even if paid by the employer) are considered taxable income for the employee changing their "income" and therefore "taxes" owed.

    4. As previously mentioned "spousal privilege" is not available under contract, only to legal spouses.

    5. Often Veteran's Cemeteries are administered by the State in conjunction with the Department of Veteran's affairs. Veteran's (which I am) are eligible for a cemetery plot in a Veteran's Cemetery and their legal spouse is also eligible for internment next to their spouse. This is available only under Civil Marriage, not private contract.

    6. States have what are called "Assumed Parentage" laws whereby when a woman gives birth to a child, the legal spouse is automatically a legal parent. This cannot be duplicated through a "contract", in the case of a same-sex couple - the other "parent" would have to go through lengthy and expensive adoption procedures to become a legal parent.


    Those are a few off the top of my head.




    Again you miss the point, there are no legal contracts that exsist "outside the state", all legal contracts exist within the structure of state law as the state is the enforcer of contracts. If a party renegs on a contract, the other party then obtains enforcement of the provisions through the judicial system - a part of the state government.



    >>>>
    State problem.

    Can be fixed with a contract.

    State problem.

    State problem.

    State problem.

    Again, can be fixed with a contract.

    The vast majority of contracts exist outside the state. Period. There is nothing you can say to counter this fact.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    State problem.
    Didn't say it wasn't - you asked for benefits not available under contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Can be fixed with a contract.
    No it can't as a "contract" does not superseded inheritance law.

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    State problem.
    Didn't say it wasn't - you asked for benefits not available under contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    State problem.
    Didn't say it wasn't - you asked for benefits not available under contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    State problem.
    Didn't say it wasn't - you asked for benefits not available under contract.

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Again, can be fixed with a contract.
    No it can't as a "contract" does not superseded parentage laws. The same-sex spouse is required to go through adoption to become a legal parent.

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    The vast majority of contracts exist outside the state. Period. There is nothing you can say to counter this fact.
    You are wrong. There are no legal contracts that exist "outside the state", all legal contracts exist within the structure of state law as the state is the enforcer of contracts. If a party renegs on a contract, the other party then obtains enforcement of the provisions through the judicial system - a part of the state government.

    Repeating an incorrect statement does not make it true.


    >>>>

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Didn't say it wasn't - you asked for benefits not available under contract.



    No it can't as a "contract" does not superseded inheritance law.



    Didn't say it wasn't - you asked for benefits not available under contract.



    Didn't say it wasn't - you asked for benefits not available under contract.



    Didn't say it wasn't - you asked for benefits not available under contract.



    No it can't as a "contract" does not superseded parentage laws. The same-sex spouse is required to go through adoption to become a legal parent.



    You are wrong. There are no legal contracts that exist "outside the state", all legal contracts exist within the structure of state law as the state is the enforcer of contracts. If a party renegs on a contract, the other party then obtains enforcement of the provisions through the judicial system - a part of the state government.
    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Repeating an incorrect statement does not make it true.
    Indeed.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Indeed.
    Can we expect your to stop making incorrect statements now?


    >>>>

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Can we expect your to stop now?
    Stop what?

    You bring me problems of state intervention, and tell me the state fixes them. Then repeat incorrect statements as if that made them true.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Stop what?

    You bring me problems of state intervention, and tell me the state fixes them. Then repeat incorrect statements as if that made them true.


    No, you asked...

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    What "benefit, privilege, or right" is banned here?
    [/indent][/indent]


    I provided concrete examples of benefits, privileges, or rights are banned (at least here in Virginia) and not available under legal contracts since legal contracts are a function of law (i.e. enforced by the state).


    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Stop what?

    You bring me problems of state intervention, and tell me the state fixes them. Then repeat incorrect statements as if that made them true.
    YOU asked for examples and I provided them and I said nothing about "telling you the state fixes them". Those things I listed are examples of things your requested.

    You are the one that keeps incorrectly stating that "vast majority" of contracts exist outside the state, all legal contracts exists as a function of State law because that is where contracts are enforced. Let's take an example, a couple enters into a co-habitation contract that includes a sexual monogamy clause, failure to abide by the contract will result in termination of the contract and both parties leaving the contract with 50% of all assets held by the couple. Person A has most of the property and assets in his/her name and engages in an adulterous affair and voids the contract. Person B then wants 50% of all assets. Person A tells Person B to piss off. What will Person B then do? File a lawsuit against Person A, which means that the State then enforces the provisions of the contract. The contract then functions under State law.



    >>>>

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    No, you asked...
    The problem being the state existing, yes?

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    State problem.

    Can be fixed with a contract.

    State problem.

    State problem.

    State problem.

    Again, can be fixed with a contract.

    The vast majority of contracts exist outside the state. Period. There is nothing you can say to counter this fact.
    Actually, this has been contested as well. Given that 20 some states have constitutional bans against civil unions, domestic partnerships, and anything resembling a marriage, such contracts lose considerable ground when created within such a state or when people travel across state lines. I don't believe you have a very good grasp of the current legal situation for same sex couples in the country.

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