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Thread: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional[W:183]

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Or taxes, or education, or businesses, or the environment...let's just go hog wild interjecting ideology heavily into yet another sector of government. Or are you in favor of it only when it's being done towards things you agree with?
    Yes, priorities shift with the election of different people, and Herring in fact campaigned on marriage equality so there was no shock there. Is there any reason to believe that the AG is specifically breaking the oaths of his office? Is he or is he not within his rights?

    And to answer your question, yes, I do prefer that elected officials hold the same beliefs as myself, and am disappointed when they don't.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Yes, priorities shift with the election of different people, and Herring in fact campaigned on marriage equality so there was no shock there.
    Really, he did? I should've been living out in LA instead of Virginia then, maybe I would've heard about it then. Because living in the state and generally following politics, I can't say I heard it brought up with or by him much and actually heard supporters try to promote him being a bit "moderate" in part because he actually previously VOTED for the law. Where are you getting the notion that he campaigned on the issue, specifically of outright refusal to defend the law in court?

    Two weeks into being in office...this can hardly be a sudden decision, yet I can't recall a time he declared that this would be one if, let alone his first, agenda item upon becoming AG. Funny how that works. Important enough to act on immediately, not important enough to tell the voters.

    And good to know...you are okay with democrats politicizing the AGs office but don't like it if a Republican does it, got it

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Really, he did? I should've been living out in LA instead of Virginia then, maybe I would've heard about it then. Because living in the state and generally following politics, I can't say I heard it brought up with or by him much and actually heard supporters try to promote him being a bit "moderate" in part because he actually previously VOTED for the law. Where are you getting the notion that he campaigned on this issue?
    from Politifact:

    Herring sang a different tune this spring during his successful Democratic primary campaign for attorney general.

    On April 5, he released an "Equality Agenda" that said, "Mark Herring believes that civil marriage is a fundamental right, and he supports marriage equality for same-gender couples." Herring pledged to work "to change the current law prohibiting such marriages."
    http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...-gay-marriage/

    From that link:

    Mark will use the power of the Attorney General to support initiatives to protect
    lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) Virginians from discrimination
    and disparate treatment in state and local agencies and programs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And good to know...you are okay with democrats politicizing the AGs office but don't like it if a Republican does it, got it
    It's an elected political office. Not only that, regardless of whether a liberal or conservative is elected, we're voting for humans, not androids, and humans are going to have priorities. Those priorities are what politicians campaign on and are the basis for our votes.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    When we next get a republican AG, I wonder if people should file suit against the states income tax and then the AG just declare he won't actually defend the states law. Or any laws regulating business or the environment. Or if the state began implementing Obamacare and lawsuits sought to stop it. Or any other law that republicans don't like. Because apparently we should simply have AGs who won't defend the laws of the state if he doesn't like it and this says he doesn't agree with any arguments in favor of the law.
    The independent judiciary has been under attack from both sides for quite awhile. Imagine if left wing activists treated state judges, who made decisions they did not like, the same way that the right wing activists did to the Justices in Iowa after their same sex marriage decision.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    from Politifact:
    I read the link politic act references. Thought there are numerous SPECIFIC actions he suggests he will take. Nothing, what so ever, is mentioned regarding not defending the laws currently on the books regarding marriage...yet it's his first significant act on the job. It was a clear instance of downplaying throughout the election a major issue that was a top priority the moment he came into office. What you snipped is essentially one line out of a three part, multiple paragraph long campaign plank.

    Also, politics act themselves...which I've begun to realize is more and more common...editorialized his stance by claiming he pledged to work to change the law, when if you read the agenda he makes no such pledge but rather it's a throw away line talking about things he's doing while they work to change the law....NOT ignore the law, as he is doing.

    Again, he absolutely did not campaign on the notion he would not defend the states ban on gay marriage, and yet was so sure of the situation that he performed that action not even a month into office yet.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I read the link politic act references. Thought there are numerous SPECIFIC actions he suggests he will take. Nothing, what so ever, is mentioned regarding not defending the laws currently on the books regarding marriage...yet it's his first significant act on the job. It was a clear instance of downplaying throughout the election a major issue that was a top priority the moment he came into office. What you snipped is essentially one line out of a three part, multiple paragraph long campaign plank.

    Also, politics act themselves...which I've begun to realize is more and more common...editorialized his stance by claiming he pledged to work to change the law, when if you read the agenda he makes no such pledge but rather it's a throw away line talking about things he's doing while they work to change the law....NOT ignore the law, as he is doing.

    Again, he absolutely did not campaign on the notion he would not defend the states ban on gay marriage, and yet was so sure of the situation that he performed that action not even a month into office yet.
    WTF do you think he put his position on marriage equality into that agenda for if not to announce how he might handle marriage equality once he got into office? He has priorities, and promoting laws against gay marriage ain't it, and his interpretation of the law is that it's unconstitutional. What did you expect him to do? Argue for laws against gay marriage, but feel really really bad about it? Your argument makes no sense.

    Is he or is he not within his legally and professionally defined rights as Attorney General to do as he did?
    Last edited by Cardinal; 01-25-14 at 03:57 AM.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Is he or is he not within his legally and professionally defined rights as Attorney General to do as he did?
    Don't know why you keep pushing this strawman question. I've not said he should be removed, nor that he isn't allowed to do this, but rather that I think it's bad form and is a mentality and thought process that I think is damaging and outside of the scope of what I think the AG should be doing, not can be doing.

    Also, I already stated my view on the priority front and my disagreement with you trying to present it in that fashion when the AG has not presented this in the least as an issue of being too low of a priority to get to, but rather something he simply disagree with.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Don't know why you keep pushing this strawman question. I've not said he should be removed, nor that he isn't allowed to do this, but rather that I think it's bad form and is a mentality and thought process that I think is damaging and outside of the scope of what I think the AG should be doing, not can be doing.

    Also, I already stated my view on the priority front and my disagreement with you trying to present it in that fashion when the AG has not presented this in the least as an issue of being too low of a priority to get to, but rather something he simply disagree with.
    Tomayto tomahto. He made his position on marriage equality perfectly clear while campaigning for office, and as head lawyer for Virginia he interpreted within the scope of his professional opinion that a law against gay marriage was constitutionally indefensible. It was not only not in bad form, but it was completely within the scope of his office and to be expected considering his campaign platform.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    As much as I enjoy what the AG is doing, from an legal standpoint, it is hard for me to justify what he is doing. It is the duty of the AG to defend the constitutionality of the laws of his state. Going the extra step of attacking Virginia's marriage ban is indefensible. And I don't think you will find a bigger supporter of same sex marriage than me.

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    Re: Va. AG's office: Gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    When we next get a republican AG, I wonder if people should file suit against the states income tax and then the AG just declare he won't actually defend the states law. Or any laws regulating business or the environment. Or if the state began implementing Obamacare and lawsuits sought to stop it. Or any other law that republicans don't like. Because apparently we should simply have AGs who won't defend the laws of the state if he doesn't like it and this says he doesn't agree with any arguments in favor of the law.

    Republican AG's do the same thing, they just have different laws they may choose to view as "unconstitutional" and therefore refuse to defend.

    Take Ken Cuccinelli, he also refused to defend something because he felft it was unconstitutoinal.

    "Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli is elaborating on why he won't
    defend in court a new law supported by Gov. Bob McDonnell
    allowing the state to take control of failing schools."

    Cuccinelli won't defend failing-schools law in court | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com


    >>>>

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