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Thread: ISTOOK: The blunt truth — White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W:91]

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    What is this newfangled concept?

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    ISTOOK: The blunt truth — White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W:91] Don't address mod boxes in thread please... bad form don't you know, old chap.

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    that was done with the first post, apparently it is over your reading level. crickets
    No, it was not. You claimed texting was not relevant. It is a parallel example showing that something being legal does not infringe on your rights *until* they drive distracted. Your objection to legalizing pot was that it would infringe on your rights..
    Last edited by Lursa; 01-28-14 at 01:26 AM.
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    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    It says harmful, not deadly, and that's only if it's smoked. You've yet to produce any evidence whatsoever that anyone in the history of mankind has ever gotten cancer from marijuana, much less more than tobacco. Don't you think we would be seeing a LOT of government sponsored studies showing how so many potsmokers are dying? Where is all that?
    Umm..where did I say that people have gotten cancer from MJ...much less more than tobacco? You seem to be projecting your own thoughts into what I am saying. I started out my conversation in this thread talking about how MJ can affect adolescents (specifically IQ). Not once did I mention cancer. Try keeping to the context of what I am talking about k?

    As for the deadly carcenigens that I mentioned. The ones listed that you ignore ARE deadly. HOWEVER, if you had read the link more you would know that those same carcenigens are inhibited by the THC. But just because they are inhibited does not mean that they are not there.
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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Umm..where did I say that people have gotten cancer from MJ...much less more than tobacco? You seem to be projecting your own thoughts into what I am saying. I started out my conversation in this thread talking about how MJ can affect adolescents (specifically IQ). Not once did I mention cancer. Try keeping to the context of what I am talking about k?

    As for the deadly carcenigens that I mentioned. The ones listed that you ignore ARE deadly. HOWEVER, if you had read the link more you would know that those same carcenigens are inhibited by the THC. But just because they are inhibited does not mean that they are not there.
    LOL, what the hell do you think we're talking about with deadly carcinogens? We're talking about cancer, which MJ has never once been proven to cause. Are you trying to claim these 'deadly' carcinogens kill you in another way? Maybe they cut your brake lines or sneak up behind you with piano wire?

    Produce evidence! If it's truly deadly, let's see the body count.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana

    Man...all this talk about marijuana...like it's some big deal.

    Discussing marijuana, within the context of the entire illegal drug problem; is like firefighters talking about how to put out a fire in a closet while the whole house is burning.

    Marijuana is almost NOTHING. It's just another escape from life that humans use; along with harder drug use, eating too much, eating crappy food, drinking too much, smoking too much, taking too many prescription drugs, working too hard, pornography addiction.........they are all bad for you(in different ways) in sufficient quantities.

    And they are all no one else's direct business if sane individual's choose to indulge in ANY of them.

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    LOL, what the hell do you think we're talking about with deadly carcinogens? We're talking about cancer, which MJ has never once been proven to cause. Are you trying to claim these 'deadly' carcinogens kill you in another way? Maybe they cut your brake lines or sneak up behind you with piano wire?

    Produce evidence! If it's truly deadly, let's see the body count.
    Do you deny that cyanide is deadly? Because MJ has it in it, along with others. Do you know what the THC in MJ does to those carcinigens? Despite my having already told you, apparently not. I've already provided you with links that explain this already. But you refuse to acknowledge any of it.

    BTW..here is another site explaining it also...

    Cannabis and tobacco smoke are not equally carcinogenic (don't let the title fool you. You need to actually read the article to understand the title)

    Smoke from tobacco and cannabis contains many of the same carcinogens and tumor promoters [20,21]. However, cannabis and tobacco have additional pharmacological activities, both receptor-dependent and independent, that result in different biological endpoints. Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons found in smoke are pro-carcinogens that are converted to carcinogens by the enzymatic activity of the cytochrome P4501A1 oxidase protein (CYP1A1 gene product). Benzo [a] pyrene is converted to its carcinogenic metabolite diol epoxide, which binds to specific hyper-mutable nucleotide sequences in the K-ras oncogene and p53 tumor suppressor [22]. Recent work by Roth et al. demonstrates that THC treatment of murine hepatoma cells caused a dose dependent increase in CYP1A1 gene transcription, while at the same time directly inhibiting the enzymatic activity of the gene product [23]. Thus, despite potentially higher levels of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons found in cannabis smoke compared to tobacco smoke (dependent on what part of the plant is smoked), the THC present in cannabis smoke should exert a protective effect against pro-carcinogens that require activation. In contrast, nicotine activates some CYP1A1 activities, thus potentially increasing the carcinogenic effects of tobacco smoke [24].
    In plain english....the carinogens which are in MJ, which are the same as found in tobacco, are deadly...they are just inhibited by the THC in MJ.
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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Do you deny that cyanide is deadly? Because MJ has it in it, along with others. Do you know what the THC in MJ does to those carcinigens? Despite my having already told you, apparently not. I've already provided you with links that explain this already. But you refuse to acknowledge any of it.

    BTW..here is another site explaining it also...

    Cannabis and tobacco smoke are not equally carcinogenic (don't let the title fool you. You need to actually read the article to understand the title)



    In plain english....the carinogens which are in MJ, which are the same as found in tobacco, are deadly...they are just inhibited by the THC in MJ.
    First, the article says smoke, and as I've pointed out, there are about a million safer ways to consume cannabis. Second, it says potentially harmful. However, not all carcinogens are equal, and not all cause cancer. The dangers of carcinogens are that they can cause cancer, which you already denied trying to make a link to. So, if marijuana doesn't kill you with cancer, how does it kill you?

    If it actually was harmful, we'd have a million studies and statistics showing how people are dying from it. Instead, we have numerous studies showing it has anti-tumor/anti-cancerous properties, and is even used by people going through chemo. All you have to do is show people dying from marijuana and I'll shut up and concede.

    Deadly means you have to die, by the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    First, the article says smoke, and as I've pointed out, there are about a million safer ways to consume cannabis.
    I do believe that I have already stated that there are safer ways. The example I gave was of vaporizers. Did you forget? Do try and keep up.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Second, it says potentially harmful. However, not all carcinogens are equal, and not all cause cancer. The dangers of carcinogens are that they can cause cancer, which you already denied trying to make a link to. So, if marijuana doesn't kill you with cancer, how does it kill you?
    Where have I stated that MJ kills you? What part is confusing you here? What is the very first line in that part that I quoted? (perhaps I should have outlined it in bright colors also?) "Smoke from tobacco and cannabis contains many of the same carcinogens and tumor promoters" Now..do you know what "tumors" are? If your answer was "cancer" you would be correct. IE both tobacco and marijuana have the same deadly carcinogens. The difference between tobacco and marijuana however is that THC inhibits those carcinogens. Nicotine however promotes them, or as the article states "activates" them. Are we going to have to get into the definitions of "inhibit" and "activates" here? Now, just because THC inhibits those deadly carcinogens that does not mean that they are not there. They still are. They are just being inhibited. By the THC.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    If it actually was harmful, we'd have a million studies and statistics showing how people are dying from it. Instead, we have numerous studies showing it has anti-tumor/anti-cancerous properties, and is even used by people going through chemo. All you have to do is show people dying from marijuana and I'll shut up and concede.
    No, you have numerous studies showing THC having anti-tumor/anti-cancerous properties. If all you give those cancer patients is THC without any other part of the marijuana plant it will have the same affect (if not better) as using the marijuana plant itself. (noting the caveat the article gives of "dependent on what part of the plant is smoked")
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 01-28-14 at 05:17 AM.
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    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I do believe that I have already stated that there are safer ways. The example I gave was of vaporizers. Did you forget? Do try and keep up.



    Where have I stated that MJ kills you? What part is confusing you here? What is the very first line in that part that I quoted? (perhaps I should have outlined it in bright colors also?) "Smoke from tobacco and cannabis contains many of the same carcinogens and tumor promoters" Now..do you know what "tumor promoters" are? If your answer was "cancer" you would be correct. IE both tobacco and marijuana have the same deadly carcinogens. The difference between tobacco and marijuana however is that THC inhibits those carcinogens. Nicotine however promotes them, or as the article states "activates" them. Are we going to have to get into the definitions of "inhibit" and "activates" here? Now, just because THC inhibits those deadly carcinogens that does not mean that they are not there. They still are. They are just being inhibited. By the THC.



    No, you have numerous studies showing THC having anti-tumor/anti-cancerous properties. If all you give those cancer patients is THC without any other part of the marijuana plant it will have the same affect (if not better) as using the marijuana plant itself. (noting the caveat the article gives of "dependent on what part of the plant is smoked")

    Deadly means you have to die, by the way.
    Let's, for a minute, assume there are "deadly" carcinogens that get completely nullified by the THC. Who cares? That's like saying "You know, if water didn't have oxygen to counteract the hydrogen, we'd be drinking pure hydrogen which would kill us."

    It's a nonsense argument. Let's look at the plant as a whole. I use it regularly and I've found it dramatically enriches my life. If there were negative effects, or even deadly ones, where are they?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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