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Thread: ISTOOK: The blunt truth — White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W:91]

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth — White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Theft has a direct victim. You are taking
    someone's property. Same with murder, rape, assault, etc. Ingesting a plant does not harm anybody. Why would we not just continue having all of the rape, murder, assault and theft laws be applicable regardless of your mental state? It doesn't matter if you were sober, drunk, or high, you're responsible for your actions.

    I hope you're at least informed enough to realize that smoking marijuana doesn't make you want to commit a crime. High people are passive and even "lazy", as you claimed. If we're that lazy, why would we also not be too lazy to commit crimes?

    You said you wouldn't lock me in jail for possession, but that's not the truth. Me not being locked in a cage for smoking is called legalization, which you adamently oppose.
    Whether the effect of a crime is immediate or long term what difference does it make ?

    The way I look at it is , is it's effect on our society destructive enough to justify it's current legal classification in 48 States ?

    I think it is, and you disagree and thats fine.

    And as far as I know my position on it may be irrelevent as more and more states start to decriminalize small amounts.

    My sisters ex was a chronic user and wasted a good chunk of his life ( 30 years ) in a pot induced haze. Started when he was 14 and never stopped.

    He also never achieved anything, never excelled, bounced around from crappy low paying job to low paying job. Claimed he was "happy" but I guarantee he wasn't.

    He didn't mature properly, physically or mentally or emotionally. His natural process of maturing, getting stronger and smarter menatally stopped when he was a teenager.

    All I saw was wasted opportunity, wasted life and wasted talent.

    You may be exceptional, but I'm not so naive that I would agree that you represent the majority.

    From what I've seen, he represented the majority

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth — White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Societies evolve, like life, as they learn from their mistakes and move forward.

    But because humans are involved in that process they inevitably will ignore historical lessons learned and then go through a process of devolution.

    Laws and regulations are then ignored and we get to repeat the same failed experiment and at the expense of the majority.

    Why we have to keep relearning our lessons is mystery to me.
    What historical lessons have we learned from making pot illegal? What were the 'issues' the criminalizing it fixed? Let's hear it.

    And we are trying to learn these lessons: Prohibition DIDNT WORK. And the War on Drugs is a failure.

    So it would be pretty stupid to continue down the same path.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Well, would you speak out against the " legalization " of theft under a certain dollar amount ?

    Even if it was "the will of the people " that allowed it to be legalized ?

    Even if it saved municipalities a lot of money ? I'm not trying to be fascist but I AM a Conservative.

    I believe in laws, and I understand the need for them. I believe your rights stop where mine start.

    PLUS, pure Democracy is essentially Mob rules, and we're a Representitive Republic as I'm sure your'e aware of.
    It's pretty clear that robbery infringes on someone's rights...so of course it shouldnt be legalized, not matter what the amount.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth — White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    What historical lessons have we learned
    from making pot illegal? What were the 'issues' the criminalizing it fixed? Let's hear it.

    And we are trying to learn these lessons: Prohibition DIDNT WORK. And the War on Drugs is a failure.

    So it would be pretty stupid to continue down the same path.
    The war on drugs is NOT a failure.

    Its like saying the war on prostitution, murder, larceny, speeding etc is a failure.

    Laws will no continue to be broken by criminals no matter how much money you pour into stopping them. It doesn't meam those laws have "failed".

    But lets you and me compromise. If I, change my position to allow the decriminalization of marijuana, what do you think should be done to keep kids away from it ?

    Other than the age limit, etc, which should be 21.

    Remember its different than alcohol.

    Should we even try to perpetuate a stigma to keep young growing minds awsy from it at all ?

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth — White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The war on drugs is NOT a failure.

    Its like saying the war on prostitution, murder, larceny, speeding etc is a failure.

    Laws will no continue to be broken by criminals no matter how much money you pour into stopping them. It doesn't meam those laws have "failed".

    But lets you and me compromise. If I, change my position to allow the decriminalization of marijuana, what do you think should be done to keep kids away from it ?

    Other than the age limit, etc, which should be 21.

    Remember its different than alcohol.

    Should we even try to perpetuate a stigma to keep young growing minds awsy from it at all ?
    How is it different from Prohibition and alcohol?

    And yes, even the govt has admitted the War on Drugs is a failure.

    And why do we need to do anything differently to keep it from kids than we do today? Or when commercially available, different from cigarette & alcohol sales?

    Again, tell me how it's different from alcohol?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth — White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    How is it different from Prohibition and
    alcohol?

    And yes, even the govt has admitted the War on Drugs is a failure.

    And why do we need to do anything differently to keep it from kids than we do today? Or when commercially available, different from cigarette & alcohol sales?

    Again, tell me how it's different from alcohol?
    The war on drugs is a failure meme is whats a failure.

    It's the typical superficial left wing demagogy.

    All laws cost money to enforce.

    Unbeliveable.

    Anyway. what would your advice be to a youngster that was willing to experiment with marijuana ?

    Or do you think its "healthy" ?

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Well I'd say those you listed dont really 'want' pot. But if they did, it's still easily available to them.

    My claim is that there wont be a significant change in people using pot, which I think you've confirmed....their work and personal circumstances prevent them now and would continue to do so.
    I confirmed no such thing, rather I suggest the EXACT opposite. Those whose work and personal circumstances prevent them NOW due to its illegality would not be prevented if it was legal.

    For or example, I would never smoke currently because it would screw with my security clearance and get me fired. If it was legal then I'd give it a try.

    There are football players that won't smoke pot because it can get them suspended from the league, but would smoke it if it was legal and thus not banned by the league.

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I confirmed no such thing, rather I suggest the EXACT opposite. Those whose work and personal circumstances prevent them NOW due to its illegality would not be prevented if it was legal.

    For or example, I would never smoke currently because it would screw with my security clearance and get me fired. If it was legal then I'd give it a try.

    There are football players that won't smoke pot because it can get them suspended from the league, but would smoke it if it was legal and thus not banned by the league.
    Anyone who works for a company that does drug testing, random or otherwise, since THC stays in the test for so long. It's really stayed away from. I was giving dating a try recently, and I of course toke for medical reasons, rarely get actually high, but evenso there were many of my dates that said they would join me in a toke or two if only they could, but alas the company had routine or random drug testing. In other words, I agree.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I confirmed no such thing, rather I suggest the EXACT opposite. Those whose work and personal circumstances prevent them NOW due to its illegality would not be prevented if it was legal.

    For or example, I would never smoke currently because it would screw with my security clearance and get me fired. If it was legal then I'd give it a try.

    There are football players that won't smoke pot because it can get them suspended from the league, but would smoke it if it was legal and thus not banned by the league.
    Really? You would try it even tho it could still affect your employment? Legal or not, businesses and employers can still require employees to be 'clean' no matter what the law is. And a football league can make the same requirements. Players cant show up drunk, can they?

    Nope, if people have work and personal circumstances that keep them from using now...besides the fact that it's illegal in most places...still risk losing their jobs or affecting their personal reasons. If their personal reason was because it was illegal...then I suppose they'll try it. But like many people that try cigarettes...myself included...certainly not all choose to 'use' the substance. Some will, some wont.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: ISTOOK: The blunt truth White house drug czar contradicts Obama on marijuana [W

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Really? You would try it even tho it could still affect your employment?
    The only way it would affect my employment is if it was still illegal at a federal level.

    If its isn't illegal at a federal level then it wouldn't have a severe impact on my Clearance and it wouldn't be grounds for removal from my job. As such, if it wasn't illegal federally it wouldn't affect my employment, which means I'd probably give it a try.

    Legal or not, businesses and employers can still require employees to be 'clean' no matter what the law is. And a football league can make the same requirements. Players cant show up drunk, can they?
    I don't know if you're just confused or if you're trying to move the goal posts of what I'm talking about.

    I never said anything about showing up to work intoxicated. I can't show up to work intoxicated on alcohol...that doesn't keep me from drinking alcohol responsibly during my off time.

    I absolutely imagine that businesses, if it's made federally legal, will disallow people to show up to work intoxicated since they ALREADY disallow people from showing up to work intoxicated on anything else. I don't imagine we'll see many businesses suggesting you're not able to be employed if you smoke on your own time and do not show up intoxicated. And if it's LEGALIZED federally, I am positive that would be the case for my work place.

    I've not been talking about smoking a joint and then immediately going to work. I'm talking about giving it a try on a Friday night, with the intoxicating effects of the marijuana long being out of my system by work Monday morning.

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