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Thread: U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

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    Re: U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Actually if anyone can be trusted to get honest results back to us for the money, I'd trust the Canadians before I would trust our unions. It's worth noting, for example, that this money is coming from our Department of Education, a centralizing and foolish bureaucracy which has spent tons of money without verifiable impact - and the reason Ontario schools look to it for a centralized system to dole out cash is that Canada does not have such a department.
    Education is a responsibility given to the provinces in the constitution as it varies a lot across the country. We have unions aswell we actually have four different ones, one for each school board.

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    Re: U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I like the idea of getting better ways to teach math. We'll probably get good information out of it.

    But then I ask myself - why bother? The US school system is inherently broken due to teachers unions, standardized testing tied with federal and state funding (money), and a curicculum which teaches kids how to take tests (again, for the money) instead of teaching subjects such that students understand the subject and use the information. Until educational reform goes through and parents/students have the opportunity to use vouchers to enroll their kids in the best schools instead of being forced to send their kid to their local school (because their local taxes are tied to the local school system), I doubt the information we gain will be put to good use.
    Teaching to the test as many like to say can be beneficial to students if you think about it. Most state tests, at least the ones I'm very familiar with, have evolved over the years to assess students cognitive skills as opposed to just recall information. Students must extrapolate information to conclude conjectural knowledge of, in some instances, unrelated subject matter with little or no prior knowledge of the topic.

    In addition, students must learn test taking strategies they should be able to transfer to routine problem solving strategies, e.g., eliminating wrong answers by procedural evidence.

    The problem I see from capable students, i.e. those with sufficient IQs and achievement ability, is a lack of prior knowledge and below level or even poor reading skills. A related issue is also apathy on the part of the student. However, I don't necessarily blame teachers for these issues. What I have observed though is that parent input and monitoring of their child's progress in school is usually lacking. In other words, there is usually a correlation between student achievement and parent involvement.

    Another issue is class size. Many students benefit from small group learning interactions, and that doesn't mean in a class of 20-30 students. That means in a class of 4-6 students. Others even need one to one interactions to learn basic skills. However that will never happen because of that costs associated with that model.

    I know some students excel living in the worst of conditions, but they are the exception rather than the rule, so to speak.

    I know this is a generalization, but from a practitioner's POV. Just my
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  3. #13
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    Re: U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Question. How many years of experience teaching K-12 do you have?
    Question: How many do I need?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Education is a responsibility given to the provinces in the constitution as it varies a lot across the country.
    Wait, what?!? How in the world could a federalist system survive without constant meddling by a national government ill-suited to handling the varieties within your populace? Surely your test scores must be far, far below our, better, more centrally directed system.

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    Re: U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Wait, what?!? How in the world could a federalist system survive without constant meddling by a national government ill-suited to handling the varieties within your populace? Surely your test scores must be far, far below our, better, more centrally directed system.
    The federal government gets control of everything else.

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    Re: U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    Teaching to the test as many like to say can be beneficial to students if you think about it. Most state tests, at least the ones I'm very familiar with, have evolved over the years to assess students cognitive skills as opposed to just recall information. Students must extrapolate information to conclude conjectural knowledge of, in some instances, unrelated subject matter with little or no prior knowledge of the topic.

    In addition, students must learn test taking strategies they should be able to transfer to routine problem solving strategies, e.g., eliminating wrong answers by procedural evidence.

    The problem I see from capable students, i.e. those with sufficient IQs and achievement ability, is a lack of prior knowledge and below level or even poor reading skills. A related issues is also apathy on the part of the student. However, I don't necessarily blame teachers for these issues. What I have observed though is that parent input and monitoring of their child's progress in school is usually lacking.

    Another issue is class size. Many students benefit from small group learning interactions, and that doesn't mean in a class of 20-30 students. That means in a class of 4-6 students. Others even need one to one interactions to learn basic skills. However that will never happen because of that costs associated with that model.

    I know some students excel living in the worst of conditions, but they are the exception rather than the rule, so to speak.

    I know this is a generalization, but from a practitioner's POV. Just my
    That sounds reasonable, but don't you think then we're graduating millions of professional test takers instead of people who know how to use and apply what they've learned?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    That sounds reasonable, but don't you think then we're graduating millions of professional test takers instead of people who know how to use and apply what they've learned?
    That's really become one of rationales for administering tests, to see how well kids have learned to think. In most professions people have to take and successfully complete tests to prove achievement. Educators, doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.

    I think a better way to help students achieve success is to guide them to professional or vocational careers. The US used to do that in the 1970s but our government now thinks all students should graduate from college, which just proves how out of touch they really are.

    I had to call a plumber to my house on a Sunday evening a few months ago to remedy a near emergency. I paid him handsomely for the fix. I'll bet he never attended college.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    That's really become one of rationales for administering tests, to see how well kids have learned to think. In most professions people have to take and successfully complete tests to prove achievement. Educators, doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.

    I think a better way to help students achieve success is to guide them to professional or vocational careers. The US used to do that in the 1970s but our government now thinks all students should graduate from college, which just proves how out of touch they really are.

    I had to call a plumber to my house on a Sunday evening a few months ago to remedy a near emergency. I paid him handsomely for the fix. I'll bet he never attended college.
    I think you have to go to college to be a plumber, at least here. Sure you have to take tests to get into those professions but after that they are almost meaningless. There are many things you can do without going to college or university.

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    Re: U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That's an interesting implicit claim.

    How many tours did you serve in Iraq or Afghanistan? If the answer is "none", does this mean that your opinion on whether or not we should have launched or should now continue those efforts is invalid?
    Nice red herring and strawman. I see you have some opinions on education; what is your background here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Question: How many do I need?
    Any number greater than zero would add to your credibility.
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    Re: U.S. To Fund Math Education Research in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    The U.S. Department of Education is funding research in Canadian schools on which system for teaching math works better, the discovery based Ontario curriculum or the JUMP program which is more of a hybrid but is also more structured. The Ontario Ministry of Education supports the idea probably because they don't have to pay for it. The U.S. is using Canada as a testing ground now I guess, thanks for the money.

    You can find the article here.

    I like this idea and I assume the JUMP program will win out just from personal experience with the Ontario curriculum. What I want to know is what do you think about your government using funds to fund educational research here in my country and province instead of your own.
    The system depends on the student....

    As usual our government is built on a bunch of retards that don't know jack ****.

    The last time they tried this **** they pulled "whole language" out their ass, which would fall into common core standards today - and is and has been used for many moons and has ****ed up a lot of kids in the process. Why you think inner city schools are failing? because they teach kids everything is just a matter of perception - there is no real factor or truth to anything.

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