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Questions and answers about Obama’s new NSA rules

my concern is what will happen to the data the nsa collected if it ever gets shut down?

It will be buried within the massive government archives and sat on for use in the future.
 
:shrug: Does anyone really know what the CIA does?



Bold: What was asked of them in showing the proof was in regards to the meta-data gathering of millions of American's data. That admission has nothing to do with any other form of information gathering and them having stopped terrorist attacks.

The CIA, in a very covert manner topples the governments of countries which we have a irreparable dispute with over their natural resources, perhaps economic policies we don't like or any of a host of reasons deemed "US interests". If it becomes too big of a challenge for them, they call the Pentagon.
 
I find it ironic thst you're making the charge.

But the irony is in you disputing the charge when you are arguing that that's what lefties are doing with Obama.
 
But the irony is in you disputing the charge when you are arguing that that's what lefties are doing with Obama.

I am losing track, didn't you start it with the "Booosh did it first" meme?
 
I am losing track, didn't you start it with the "Booosh did it first" meme?

J-mac, if you've paid any attention at all to my meme, you would know that I'm a big critic of partisans who are quiet when their president is doing it and quite vocal when the other guys is. So while I agree with the criticism directed at Obama, I'm pointing out that Bush and others have done it as well. Point being, because of partisans support, it just continues.

Said another way, if apdst was criticising his president as well for doing the same, then I'd be saying nothing to him about it.
 
You're derending him by deflecting. The NSA doesn't work directly for tye GOP. The NSA damn well works directly for the president and you're giving Marse Barack a free pass.

What am I deflecting? I simply want to know why Marse Boehner hasn't passed any bills about it. It's a reasonable question.
 
What am I deflecting? I simply want to know why Marse Boehner hasn't passed any bills about it. It's a reasonable question.

You're deflecting blame onto the Speaker of The House--who the NSA doesn't answer to--instead of The President--who the NSA answers to, directly. Ever hear of Chuck Hagel? Yeah, he's The Secretary of Defense. The NSA falls within The Department of Defense. Chuck Hagel answers directly to The President, not The Speaker of The House.

All those facts being as they are, there is no bill, passed by Congress forcing the NSA to collect information on American citizens; hence, The President can directly order the surveillance to stop, immediately. Did he? No, he didn't. In fact, he stated frankly that he didn't and wasn't going to. Now, stop trying to cover for The Messiah and place the responsibility squarely where it belongs.
 
In October 2001, President Bush issued a secret presidential order authorizing the NSA to conduct a range of surveillance activities inside of the United States without statutory authorization or court approval, including electronic surveillance of Americans’ telephone and Internet communications. This program of surveillance continues through today, although the legal justifications have changed over time, and works with the major telecommunications and Internet companies.


https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/faq
 
I never thought that EVER - I absolutely hated Bush after that...

The Patriot Act gave authorities to circumvent the constitution from the local police to the federal government - just like Obama is doing now but you see no problem with that.

The difference between Bush and Obama is that Bush never could have imagined that any government body would use the Patriot Act for anything other than what it was intended to do - Bush never saw the slippery slope and highly underestimated those in government (or at least trusted them) that were liking their chops just waiting to use it to collect civilian domestic intelligence - just because the door was now open. Or those who saw the open door and figured they could use the cops as their own SS units.

I saw that from the beginning but it was Obama and the NSA, and bitches like Napolitano who get golf claps for lying and degrading and condemning guys like Edward Snowden that exposed the whole ****ing thing...

You don't want real transparency - you want talk of it - you want an authoritarian government that spies on you everyday just to make sure you're recycling and living a progressive lifestyle...

Those are individual choices people have to make NOT collective choices - then you're bewildered why I compare progressives to Stalin, Hitler, Mao etc....???
Oh, yeah, Bush was SUCH a stand-up kinda' guy - he didn't suspect ...
The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

Note the date of the article: "Updated 5/11/2006 12:31 AM ET"

:roll: :roll: :roll:
 
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Collecting this information isn't mandated by law. There's nothing keeping Marse Barack from just orfering the NSA to end the operation.
Where was the Republican outrage in 2006?
Q: What was the NSA doing?

A: The NSA collected "call-detail" records. That's telephone industry lingo for the numbers being dialed. Phone customers' names, addresses and other personal information are not being collected as part of this program. The agency, however, has the means to assemble that sort of information, if it so chooses.

Q: When did this start?

A: After the Sept. 11 attacks.

Q: Can I find out if my call records were collected?

A: No. The NSA's work is secret, and the agency won't publicly discuss its operations.

Q: Why did they do this?

A: The agency won't say officially. But sources say it was a way to identify, and monitor, people suspected of terrorist activities.

Q: But I'm not calling terrorists. Why do they need my calls?

A: By cross-checking a vast database of phone calling records, NSA experts can try to pick out patterns that help identify people involved in terrorism.
USATODAY.com - Questions and answers about the NSA phone record collection program

Again, note the article date: Updated 5/11/2006 12:31 AM ET
 
You're deflecting blame onto the Speaker of The House--who the NSA doesn't answer to--instead of The President--who the NSA answers to, directly. Ever hear of Chuck Hagel? Yeah, he's The Secretary of Defense. The NSA falls within The Department of Defense. Chuck Hagel answers directly to The President, not The Speaker of The House.

All those facts being as they are, there is no bill, passed by Congress forcing the NSA to collect information on American citizens; hence, The President can directly order the surveillance to stop, immediately. Did he? No, he didn't. In fact, he stated frankly that he didn't and wasn't going to. Now, stop trying to cover for The Messiah and place the responsibility squarely where it belongs.

On the Republicans who passed the Patriot Act in the first place?
 
J-mac, if you've paid any attention at all to my meme, you would know that I'm a big critic of partisans who are quiet when their president is doing it and quite vocal when the other guys is. So while I agree with the criticism directed at Obama, I'm pointing out that Bush and others have done it as well. Point being, because of partisans support, it just continues.

Said another way, if apdst was criticising his president as well for doing the same, then I'd be saying nothing to him about it.

See, I understand that, and although I can't speak for adpst, I can tell you that during the Bush administration from my prospective, I think he did a reasonably good job. I wasn't totally on board with the Spying stuff, (primarily for this reason we have today) but at the same time, I don't think that Bush was turning it on American citizens the way this President is doing either.

As to the comparisons, many do this to justify what Obama is doing today, or to deflect arguments about the 'here and now' trying to obfuscate. Even more frustrating are those that smugly present their arguments as though anyone not agreeing with them are just partisan hacks, and should be dismissed out of hand.

I only asked if you were comparing to justify Obama's use of the NSA as it stands today, if so, I would have said that justifications based on the "he did it too" arguments are just plain fallacious and if you support Obama, or what he is doing you should have more to rest on in that regard....

Thanks for the reply.
 
I do blame both. I'm trying to get certain hacks off of their "Democrats evil, Republicans good" line.

Don't let me get in the way of that!
 
See, I understand that, and although I can't speak for adpst, I can tell you that during the Bush administration from my prospective, I think he did a reasonably good job. I wasn't totally on board with the Spying stuff, (primarily for this reason we have today) but at the same time, I don't think that Bush was turning it on American citizens the way this President is doing either.

As to the comparisons, many do this to justify what Obama is doing today, or to deflect arguments about the 'here and now' trying to obfuscate. Even more frustrating are those that smugly present their arguments as though anyone not agreeing with them are just partisan hacks, and should be dismissed out of hand.

I only asked if you were comparing to justify Obama's use of the NSA as it stands today, if so, I would have said that justifications based on the "he did it too" arguments are just plain fallacious and if you support Obama, or what he is doing you should have more to rest on in that regard....

Thanks for the reply.

Do you think it's possible that you just don't see what the Bush administration did because you didn't want to? What Snowden revealed is not something that was suddenly invented by Obama. These programs were in place before his Presidency, and if Snowden had revealed what he did in 2007, the sides would just be reversed IMO and ape-std would just be running as much interference as he could.

While Obama and the Democrats didn't do anything to get rid of any of this, repealing it hasn't exactly been a priority in the GOP, and under a President McCain or Romney we'd see the very same things happening. Both of the 2 parties like this sort of thing when they're in charge, and hate it when they're the opposition, and neither of them are likely to kill it because they want to do it or whine about it (depending on who's in power).
 
See, I understand that, and although I can't speak for adpst, I can tell you that during the Bush administration from my prospective, I think he did a reasonably good job. I wasn't totally on board with the Spying stuff, (primarily for this reason we have today) but at the same time, I don't think that Bush was turning it on American citizens the way this President is doing either.

As to the comparisons, many do this to justify what Obama is doing today, or to deflect arguments about the 'here and now' trying to obfuscate. Even more frustrating are those that smugly present their arguments as though anyone not agreeing with them are just partisan hacks, and should be dismissed out of hand.

I only asked if you were comparing to justify Obama's use of the NSA as it stands today, if so, I would have said that justifications based on the "he did it too" arguments are just plain fallacious and if you support Obama, or what he is doing you should have more to rest on in that regard....

Thanks for the reply.

Sure thing. And no, I'm no supporter of Obama and specifically with respect to this topic. But if we Americans don't dispense with the team mentality and see ourselves as Americans and constitutionalists first, and party affiliates second, nothing will ever be repaired, and this tired and worn out finger pointing, which serves zero purpose, and hair splitting over who did more of it,and who did it worse, we can continue to expect more. Yes J-Mac, I hear ya loudly, what Obama is doing is magnitudes worse. But what Bush did, in THIS regard was magnitudes worse then Clinton. Why do people have such difficulties with this. Because Bush supporters ALLOWED the camels nose under tent, we now have half his body under. It's too late to hold Bush accountable for the earlier abuse, and now those who didn't, want to jump and scream over Obama's latter abuse, problem is, his base of support won't! As Bush's base of support wouldn't then. So here we go back and forth with this sophomoric finger pointing over who's worse, and in the process we all get a good ****ing. STOP already being a partisan, hold EVERYBODY ACCOUNTABLE.
 
On the Republicans who passed the Patriot Act in the first place?

Since then, the Democrats have had control of the Legislative Executive Branches and didn't do anything. Obama flat stated he wasn't going to stop the surveillance. It's his show, now.
 
Since then, the Democrats have had control of the Legislative Executive Branches and didn't do anything. Obama flat stated he wasn't going to stop the surveillance. It's his show, now.

True enough. I blame them for not getting rid of it. The fact remains that the opposition party will always play these games - whine and whine, then leave it alone so that THEY can do it when they return to power.
 
True enough. I blame them for not getting rid of it. The fact remains that the opposition party will always play these games - whine and whine, then leave it alone so that THEY can do it when they return to power.

It's NEVER Obama's fault, either...lol!
 
Where's the Libbo outrage over Obama's stated refusal to end the program?

Well I'm no libbo and I'm outraged over the continued program. I'm also outraged that you stood idly by while Bush started it and let that camels nose under the rug. You just can't see how that this **** is never going to end because of partisan support.
 
Do you think it's possible that you just don't see what the Bush administration did because you didn't want to? What Snowden revealed is not something that was suddenly invented by Obama. These programs were in place before his Presidency, and if Snowden had revealed what he did in 2007, the sides would just be reversed IMO and ape-std would just be running as much interference as he could.

While Obama and the Democrats didn't do anything to get rid of any of this, repealing it hasn't exactly been a priority in the GOP, and under a President McCain or Romney we'd see the very same things happening. Both of the 2 parties like this sort of thing when they're in charge, and hate it when they're the opposition, and neither of them are likely to kill it because they want to do it or whine about it (depending on who's in power).


Anything is possible I suppose, however, we are in the here and now. I have always held a certain bit of skepticism about the Patriot act, and the power it gave to government as opposed to liberty lost, and at its inception, things were different than today. Now you can continue to chide me for a lack of forward thinking at the time, or you can look at how the current administration, and politicians on both sides are addressing this and agree that while we need to be able to take measures to listen, or track certain numbers in contact within the US, but that mass grabs of information are not acceptable. This whole 'you were fine with Bush having it' argument is pointless.
 
Sure thing. And no, I'm no supporter of Obama and specifically with respect to this topic. But if we Americans don't dispense with the team mentality and see ourselves as Americans and constitutionalists first, and party affiliates second, nothing will ever be repaired, and this tired and worn out finger pointing, which serves zero purpose, and hair splitting over who did more of it,and who did it worse, we can continue to expect more. Yes J-Mac, I hear ya loudly, what Obama is doing is magnitudes worse. But what Bush did, in THIS regard was magnitudes worse then Clinton. Why do people have such difficulties with this. Because Bush supporters ALLOWED the camels nose under tent, we now have half his body under. It's too late to hold Bush accountable for the earlier abuse, and now those who didn't, want to jump and scream over Obama's latter abuse, problem is, his base of support won't! As Bush's base of support wouldn't then. So here we go back and forth with this sophomoric finger pointing over who's worse, and in the process we all get a good ****ing. STOP already being a partisan, hold EVERYBODY ACCOUNTABLE.

I hear ya. The way I am looking at it now is, what is it that you, or anyone for that matter, should be saying to satisfy your view of the situation, because I can tell ya, from what I see, this power is not going away for any administration, anytime soon.
 
I hear ya. The way I am looking at it now is, what is it that you, or anyone for that matter, should be saying to satisfy your view of the situation, because I can tell ya, from what I see, this power is not going away for any administration, anytime soon.

Yes well point taken. Far more Americans are partisan than not. And not all independents are TRULY independent. Until the TRULY independent, liberty minded and constitutionally focused Americans out number partisans, we can expect the status quo. Why protecting ones party president trumps the law, no longer amazes me, and it will eventually deliver us something none of us want.
 
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