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Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

Kobie said:
The same way that government forcing people to obey speed limits isn't tyranny.

The individual mandate is an extension of government authority. That's definitely true. But to call it "tyranny" is ludicrous.
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BS comparison-you are NOT required to drive. You ARE required to purchase overpriced and over-covered insurance.

Stop hiding, son.
 
Mr.Nick said:
You do realize I have heard your POV about 1,000 times yet every time another one of you posts it as you believe it's unique....

Your posts are hardly unique and hardly philosophical...

I understand your position 10-fold... You just make the same arguments every other progressive makes.

Maybe that is just a collectivist problem? ya think?

Ever notice how you get the same replies to your posts because you bumble the same ****?

You call yourself a progressive but never like to see a discussion/argument or debate progress.
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They are programmed to think they are novel, and that we simply aren't understanding. :doh
 
US Conservative said:
BS comparison-you are NOT required to drive. You ARE required to purchase overpriced and over-covered insurance.

Stop hiding, son.
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No you're not. You can choose to pay the nominal fine.

Government forces us to do lots of things. Are taxes tyranny? Is registering for the Selective Service tyranny? Is registering your mailing address with the government tyranny?
 
To clarify my position -- I'm no fan of the individual mandate. It should have been paired with the public option, and the fact that they killed the public option and kept the mandate, to me, killed a lot of what I thought was the point to Obamacare.

However, it's not "tyranny" no matter how you slice it. That word gets thrown around even more ineptly than "slavery."
 
Kobie said:
No you're not. You can choose to pay the nominal fine.

Government forces us to do lots of things. Are taxes tyranny? Is registering for the Selective Service tyranny? Is registering your mailing address with the government tyranny?
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By this logic there is no tyranny. :roll:

Crouch down and lick Dear Leaders hand, boy.
 
US Conservative said:
By this logic there is no tyranny. :roll:

Crouch down and lick Dear Leaders hand, boy.
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Oh, bull****. For example, Jailing or execution of political dissidents is tyranny.

You guys have really lost it.
 
Boo Radley said:
Yeah, kind of like Cheney's vote for us or die, which again you didn't mind. And that went on for longer than 3 days, longer than 16 days, and even involved questionable use of the color coated threat system. Again, you didn't mind. Suggesting that you are all for such politics as long as guy is using it.

But, the point here is the issue wasn't what you guts tried so desperately to make it out to be.

And I'm talking about the news media being used by the Bush administration to sell the war. Doing all the things you accuse it if with Obama. Do you see it yet?
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So, that makes it ok now eh? You realize that the only excuse you are making here is "They did it too" excuse....right?
 
Kobie said:
The people on the right who chirp incessantly about tyranny wouldn't know actual tyranny if it threw them in a gulag.
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Too, too true.

Sadly.
 
j-mac said:
So, that makes it ok now eh? You realize that the only excuse you are making here is "They did it too" excuse....right?
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No, and I never said it was ok. I said you guys exaggerate (for what reason who knows). And you make arguments that the past shows you really don't care about. Exaggerated arguments that would disappear if the person were a republican. I just want you to see that.

Tone it down to the truth, and we might agree. Be a little consistent and I'd respect the view more. You don't need that respect, but you should at least understand what hurts your argument.
 
Kobie said:
No you're not. You can choose to pay the nominal fine.

Government forces us to do lots of things. Are taxes tyranny? Is registering for the Selective Service tyranny? Is registering your mailing address with the government tyranny?
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Tyranny can mean alot of things today...For example, one way to control people is through taxation, which is why the founders that set up the Constitution, set up a list of enumerated powers, and specific functions that government is allowed to tax for. The problem you progressives run into is that we are a country where the people of the country are the top dog, or hold the power, not the government....The government is supposed to answer to us. Progressives seem to be in love with 'command government' which is opposite of what was America was supposed to be.
 
j-mac said:
Tyranny can mean alot of things today...For example, one way to control people is through taxation, which is why the founders that set up the Constitution, set up a list of enumerated powers, and specific functions that government is allowed to tax for. The problem you progressives run into is that we are a country where the people of the country are the top dog, or hold the power, not the government....The government is supposed to answer to us. Progressives seem to be in love with 'command government' which is opposite of what was America was supposed to be.
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If a word can mean anything, it means nothing. There has been a tendency among the more extreme to actually make their words meaningless by doing things like do above. Tyranny is much more defined, and is nothing like raising taxes in a representative government. The rest of what you write here is just partisan nonsense.
 
Boo Radley said:
No, and I never said it was ok. I said you guys exaggerate (for what reason who knows). And you make arguments that the past shows you really don't care about. Exaggerated arguments that would disappear if the person were a republican. I just want you to see that.

Tone it down to the truth, and we might agree. Be a little consistent and I'd respect the view more. You don't need that respect, but you should at least understand what hurts your argument.
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No, you never said it was ok, but to compare Obama to Bush/Cheney in a fashion to excuse, or condone the behavior is wrong. We don't let children get away with that, and you as an adult shouldn't use it either. I have laid out many times what I think was the likely scenario for why such a transparent lie was adopted, and moved forward with a pure snow job to the American people....

The administration put out conflicting statements at different times, I think for just this sort of cover, but whenever asked a direct question about whether or not it was terrorism, Obama, Clinton, Rice, etc. blamed a video, or leaned on an investigation that was also fictitious at the time...It was a cynical move in the end of an election season where to have told the truth could have cost him the election....So he lied...It really is that simple....And that you still today are trying to make excuses for him by furthering the line that he just didn't know is stupid considering that we now know for a fact that Ponetta told him it was a terror attack in real time, and they watched it go down.
 
Boo Radley said:
If a word can mean anything, it means nothing. There has been a tendency among the more extreme to actually make their words meaningless by doing things like do above. Tyranny is much more defined, and is nothing like raising taxes in a representative government. The rest of what you write here is just partisan nonsense.
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Yes...."Extreme" now there's a word that you and your ilk have rendered meaningless...
 
j-mac said:
No, you never said it was ok, but to compare Obama to Bush/Cheney in a fashion to excuse, or condone the behavior is wrong. We don't let children get away with that, and you as an adult shouldn't use it either. I have laid out many times what I think was the likely scenario for why such a transparent lie was adopted, and moved forward with a pure snow job to the American people....

The administration put out conflicting statements at different times, I think for just this sort of cover, but whenever asked a direct question about whether or not it was terrorism, Obama, Clinton, Rice, etc. blamed a video, or leaned on an investigation that was also fictitious at the time...It was a cynical move in the end of an election season where to have told the truth could have cost him the election....So he lied...It really is that simple....And that you still today are trying to make excuses for him by furthering the line that he just didn't know is stupid considering that we now know for a fact that Ponetta told him it was a terror attack in real time, and they watched it go down.
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Again you misinterpret. Not to excuse, put to place in context. And to highlight your hypocrisy. Both matter.

As for lied, far less evidence of that with Bush (again for context), to which you would have argued we can't read Obama's mind, if he were a republican, and thus can't know what he knew or didn't know.
 
j-mac said:
Yes...."Extreme" now there's a word that you and your ilk have rendered meaningless...
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You'd be hard pressed to find me extreme on any issue. But feel free to try.
 
Boo Radley said:
Again you misinterpret. Not to excuse, put to place in context. And to highlight your hypocrisy. Both matter.

As for lied, far less evidence of that with Bush (again for context), to which you would have argued we can't read Obama's mind, if he were a republican, and thus can't know what he knew or didn't know.
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Nope, you're wrong again..
 
j-mac said:
I don't think that is true....And it isn't just me that would say so.
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I'm not asking what you think. I asked you to find, support, give evidence. It's a different process altogether.
 
j-mac said:
Tyranny can mean alot of things today...For example, one way to control people is through taxation, which is why the founders that set up the Constitution, set up a list of enumerated powers, and specific functions that government is allowed to tax for. The problem you progressives run into is that we are a country where the people of the country are the top dog, or hold the power, not the government....The government is supposed to answer to us. Progressives seem to be in love with 'command government' which is opposite of what was America was supposed to be.
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They are statists, who mock lovers of freedom while they seek to control them.
 
Boo Radley said:
I don't think so, but prove me wrong. Tell me Bush lied.
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What specifically? Iraq WMD? See, I don't think he "lied" specifically. I think he went on the best information at the time, and it didn't totally bear out because of all the hoops liberals put in place for him to jump through to go in, that by the time he did, Saddam had the time working with Russia to get rid of them....But in the end, that is old news, why you keep going back to that as a distraction to what Obama is doing on a daily basis today can only be seen as deflection by you, and excuse making....

Seriously Joe, I don't understand why you condone Obama lying.
 
j-mac said:
What specifically? Iraq WMD? See, I don't think he "lied" specifically. I think he went on the best information at the time, and it didn't totally bear out because of all the hoops liberals put in place for him to jump through to go in, that by the time he did, Saddam had the time working with Russia to get rid of them....But in the end, that is old news, why you keep going back to that as a distraction to what Obama is doing on a daily basis today can only be seen as deflection by you, and excuse making....

Seriously Joe, I don't understand why you condone Obama lying.
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Which is what I said. The evidence is stronger that he did, but you don't see it. You make excuses. Blame others. I haven't done any of that.
 
Boo Radley said:
Which is what I said. The evidence is stronger that he did, but you don't see it. You make excuses. Blame others. I haven't done any of that.
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This thread has nothing to do with George Bush. After 374 posts you still don't get that??
 
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