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Thread: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You miss the point. When something IS so, you don't have to pretend it is so.
    But it is not so.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    There was as much or more international support for Iraq then Libya. Do we have to bring out all the numbers, AGAIN!?!? And no it didn't go as far, but again Boo, your partisan eyes are ignoring the fact that it didn't go as far because it didn't need to go as far to meet US objectives, not because we have a more benevolent White House.
    A bribed coalition of the willing doesn't equal more support, no. It us more likely you're partisan eyes are ignoring differences.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I understand that, you've said it in this thread, albeit with the caveat that he wasn't as wrong as Bush, leave that off and it's perfect.
    But it isn't equal. There are real and important differences. How severe something is matters in terms of response. You react according appropriately according to the severity of the act. Had Bush not occupied, the anger would have died down as it has with Obama. Occupation assured continued and growing anger. It's appropriate to recognize this.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    White House covert activities go back to at least the Jefferson administration. Because two wrongs equal a right, this continues.
    I didn't say it made it right, only expected. I also think pointing to changes or growth in excesses, and new areas of overreach would be more fruitful. Otherwise we're left with they are all evil and suck. At some point we have to say this one went beyond the others, and this one was in norm. With those in the norm, we focus on changing the authority and not saying the person is bad. It's the system that allows it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I never said he had the "goal of creating a dictatorship". But do you deny he mused that such would disencumber him from getting his agenda through. Or that he was frustrated with his advisors when they pointed to things like our constitution, IL or the opposition party?
    It's not a great leap to conclude that the presidency would be much more powerful without Congress. Presidents have joked about this often when pressed for why they haven't done more. Only Nixon and Obama have shown an actual willingness to do something about that.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    It's not a great leap to conclude that the presidency would be much more powerful without Congress. Presidents have joked about this often when pressed for why they haven't done more. Only Nixon and Obama have shown an actual willingness to do something about that.
    I'm sure presidents have jokingly (and not so jokingly) said all kinds of things in private! Bush's overt comments routinely were on display for all to see what he wished for, and worked for. John Yoo's twisting of the letter and intent of the law is one example, Bush's strong arming of the AG when he was quite ill in the hospital, is another and his White Houses outing of a CIA agent is another, and there's more. Presidents, when not held STRICTLY accountable, primarily by their base and core supporters when they over reach, ensures more of the same. I'm glad to see your by partisan criticism of presidents though.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I didn't say it made it right, only expected. I also think pointing to changes or growth in excesses, and new areas of overreach would be more fruitful. Otherwise we're left with they are all evil and suck. At some point we have to say this one went beyond the others, and this one was in norm. With those in the norm, we focus on changing the authority and not saying the person is bad. It's the system that allows it.
    I hear ya, if we're going for the lesser of two evils, sure. But if we want it right, then partisans have got to love, and be, Americans first, and democrats and republicans second. (Or third or whatever)
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I'm sure presidents have jokingly (and not so jokingly) said all kinds of things in private! Bush's overt comments routinely were on display for all to see what he wished for, and worked for. John Yoo's twisting of the letter and intent of the law is one example, Bush's strong arming of the AG when he was quite ill in the hospital, is another and his White Houses outing of a CIA agent is another, and there's more. Presidents, when not held STRICTLY accountable, primarily by their base and core supporters when they over reach, ensures more of the same. I'm glad to see your by partisan criticism of presidents though.
    While I am not interested in rehashing all of these again, I will leave you with this regarding one of your debatable claims:

    End of an Affair - The Washington Post

    Final Paragraph: "Nevertheless, it now appears that the person most responsible for the end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson chose to go public with an explosive charge, claiming -- falsely, as it turned out -- that he had debunked reports of Iraqi uranium-shopping in Niger and that his report had circulated to senior administration officials. He ought to have expected that both those officials and journalists such as Mr. Novak would ask why a retired ambassador would have been sent on such a mission and that the answer would point to his wife. He diverted responsibility from himself and his false charges by claiming that President Bush's closest aides had engaged in an illegal conspiracy. It's unfortunate that so many people took him seriously."

    Few people followed that story long enough to get the actual truth of it and therefor many remain ignorant to the final conclusions. It didn't help that the Washington Post spent a year flooding their front page with the false accusations, and one short op-ed at the end of the A section retracting all of it.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 02-05-14 at 03:49 PM.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    While I am not interested in rehashing all of these again, I will leave you with this regarding one of your debatable claims:

    End of an Affair - The Washington Post

    Final Paragraph: "Nevertheless, it now appears that the person most responsible for the end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson chose to go public with an explosive charge, claiming -- falsely, as it turned out -- that he had debunked reports of Iraqi uranium-shopping in Niger and that his report had circulated to senior administration officials. He ought to have expected that both those officials and journalists such as Mr. Novak would ask why a retired ambassador would have been sent on such a mission and that the answer would point to his wife. He diverted responsibility from himself and his false charges by claiming that President Bush's closest aides had engaged in an illegal conspiracy. It's unfortunate that so many people took him seriously."

    Few people followed that story long enough to get the actual truth of it and therefor many remain ignorant to the final conclusions. It didn't help that the Washington Post spent a year flooding their front page with the false accusations, and one short op-ed at the end of the A section retracting all of it.
    Don't know the source of your bolded. But that too is debatable. Bush claimed Saddam was purchasing the yellow cake from Niger, Wilson was sent to investigate the claim. Found it to be false reported back to the White House as such, and was then appalled when Bush further made the claim in his SOTU address. So he called him out in the paper. Which of course pissed the White house off, and prompted the outing of Plame. If you think that some how it was Plame and Wilson's decision that Wilson would be the one to go investigate, then you should think again. That's not how the State Dept. works. Scooter Libby did time for the crime, its absurd to blame Wilson for that.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Don't know the source of your bolded. But that too is debatable. Bush claimed Saddam was purchasing the yellow cake from Niger, Wilson was sent to investigate the claim. Found it to be false reported back to the White House as such, and was then appalled when Bush further made the claim in his SOTU address. So he called him out in the paper. Which of course pissed the White house off, and prompted the outing of Plame. If you think that some how it was Plame and Wilson's decision that Wilson would be the one to go investigate, then you should think again. That's not how the State Dept. works. Scooter Libby did time for the crime, its absurd to blame Wilson for that.
    The source is the link right above the quote.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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