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Thread: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Iraq wasn't necessary, so that is a difference in how they handle what isn't necessary. I haven't called Obama's administration benevolent. Just not as bad as Bush's was. There is much I disagree with Obama on. I just won't pretend he has done as poorly as Bush on these things.
    But you don't have to pretend.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More than Iraq was, and not really just a US effort. No coalition of the willing. But not something I supported.
    Not really. Other than it was a democratic president firing the missiles, how was Libya more justified than Iraq?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More than Iraq was, and not really just a US effort. No coalition of the willing. But not something I supported.
    You know you'd have more credibility if you'd just call Obama out on being wrong on Libya, rather than trying to hold him a little bit higher out of the sewer than Bush, because then your just being a partisan and helping to ensure we get more of the same.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Was Lybia necessary?
    To realize the Wests long standing goal of "regime change", yes. But if it amounted simply to protection of civilians, things would have went a lot differently. For one, Gaddafi, who had already made significant reforms, unprecedented when compared to the other heavy hands in the region, would have reigned in his military, some of which was attacked heading west (basically a stance of retreat) from the main contesting grounds in east Libya anyway, and many believe that he would have been willing to make at least some concessions to the protestations that were being made. But now then, we'll never know what really could have been, because true to form, the US lined up the navy ships and let the tomahawks fly, while the British and French, US to a lesser degree, flew round the clock sorties, directed at targets sure to bring about "regime change".
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wow! So, we should just ignore it, and pretend that everything possible was done right? We should be content that some poor schmuck that made a stupid video years ago was thrown into jail to further a lie? We should be content with our leaders openly lying to our face?

    What did the President know? When did he know it? and What did he instruct be done about it? These are questions that EVERY american should want to know.
    I never suggested it be ignored. But there is a lot more going on than people just asking questions though. There are accusations being made without evidence. If people don't get the answer they already believe is true (and have no way of knowing it's true) they call people liars. There is an excited focus on the remotest of possibilities here. Did Obama say it was an act or terror or a terrorist attack? WHO GIVES A ****? What possible difference does that actually make? "Oh god he wouldn't call it a terrorist attack for days but others were...he's a liar, he's covering something up!" Really? What is he covering up? People don't know...but it's gotta be something otherwise he would have said "it's a terrorist attack" right? No. Not right. Was there a tremendous amount of disconnect in the messages coming out of the White House? Yes. Did the administration look like bumbling idiots at times over this? Yes. Did it mean they were covering up for terrorists or trying to downplay the event because they thought a terrorist attack might make them look bad? Who can know? The whole GOP led mantra that Obama and Clinton ignored the SEALS cries for backup is just an example of the crap I'm talking about. Or that Obama deliberately ignored repeated requests increased security for the offices in Libya. Presidents don't typically get involved in that level of discussion (as in how many Marines stationed at security posts, how many State Department security specialists, what kinds of weapons are authorized). That is all managed well below his level and he has to trust his people to make the right decisions on those matters. Clearly somebody did not in the case of Benghazi. Clearly there were warning signs. So who exactly ignored them? Are they still employed? Those people, the ones who had a direct role in failing to do their job (in the security strategy of the offices in Libya) should be fired for incompetency.

    Being frustrated about how this happened is understandable. Americans are dead and it may have been possible to prevent it. Pointing out that questions haven't been answered sufficiently and that there appears to be a lack of accountability is reasonable. But the extremist response that seems to keep coming up from the more unreasonable side of the crowd is to assess a guilty verdict on Obama...well beyond that which is due his station of President. Ultimately it does rest on his shoulders, vicarious liability right?
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't think so. I believe the differences matter.
    The differences only matter when your not talking about presidential culpability. You mustn't forget that during hostilities in Libya, the CIA was operating a facility in Benghazi, (smuggling we call it when it's "unauthorized") delivering arms to the Syrian opposition, in a covert attempt to help facilitate "regime change" in Syria, because overt attempts were sure to fail and ultimately did until recently, and in a limited way.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    But you don't have to pretend.
    And I don't. That's what I said.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Not really. Other than it was a democratic president firing the missiles, how was Libya more justified than Iraq?
    Didn't say it was justified. I said it didn't go as far, and there was more international support. These are real differences.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You know you'd have more credibility if you'd just call Obama out on being wrong on Libya, rather than trying to hold him a little bit higher out of the sewer than Bush, because then your just being a partisan and helping to ensure we get more of the same.
    If you look at the threads back then you should find me saying he was wrong.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Senate report: Attacks in Benghazi could have been prevented

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The differences only matter when your not talking about presidential culpability. You mustn't forget that during hostilities in Libya, the CIA was operating a facility in Benghazi, (smuggling we call it when it's "unauthorized") delivering arms to the Syrian opposition, in a covert attempt to help facilitate "regime change" in Syria, because overt attempts were sure to fail and ultimately did until recently, and in a limited way.
    Yes, and such covert stuff has a long history ore dating both Bush and Obama.

    And they were all wrong as far as I can see. But that's another issue and don't make any of them the same.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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