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Thread: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Two days into this thread, and I've yet to see the source for the "lack of regulation enforcement" charge.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Regulations are pointless if there is not money for enforcement. The State Environmental Protection Agency in China has plenty of regulations, its problem is they do not fund it, and thus it cannot enforce its regulations.
    Funding for the EPA has rose feverishly in the past 5 years under Obama. It got cut during sequestration but in the new budget deal those cuts have been restored. The article in the OP clearly stated that the EPA had inspected the cite multiple times the past few years. There were no violations given even though the location storing chemicals was close to a waterway.
    Environmental Protection should not be a partisan issue. There was a time that it was not a partisan issue. Unfortunately, those days ended about the time Nixon left office. Today environmental protection is very much a partisan issue. You have Democrats largely in favor of stronger environmental protections and enforcement, and you have Republicans largely against them.
    Everyone wants clean air and water but the EPA is currently on steroids pushing an agenda that is based on an unsettled science which is absolutely absurd by any standards.
    Unfortunately, trusting today's Republicans with Environmental Protection is about as smart as trusting Bernie Sanders with implementing a pro-business agenda. Luckily, despite many of them being bought and paid for by oil, mining and energy industry lobbyists, weakening environmental protections is so unpopular that they have not been that successful. Of course, anyone paying attention the last 20 years knows that Republicans by and large are very hostile to environmental protection. After all, in the what seemed like dozens of debates for the Republican Presidential Primaries, there was not a one where the EPA and its "job killing regulations" were not roundly bashed. Thus they have taken a different tact, they have weakened enforcement by gutting funding to the EPA:
    Once again, you are being disingenuous over regulations based on an unsettled science. The funding for the EPA was super increased in the past few years,...... trimming it back is hardly an act of a doomsday scenario you paint. It was the sequester that cut the funding and that was done in agreement by both Democrats and Republicans. And none of this has anything to do with the weak/loose rules in West Virginia, a state where Democrat governors have been in control for 13 years. If Democrats are the shining stars and the only ones to trust on environmental issues then please explain why the last three Democrat governors in the state of West Virginia have allowed the storage of dangerous chemicals next to major waterways and it didn't become a problem for them until there was a leak! I live in Ohio. The chemical has now made its way into the Ohio River and has been detected at Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky.
    I am not saying that environmental organizations and liberals in general are 100% in the right in terms of environmental policy. I think their opposition to Natural Gas Fracking and Nuclear Energy is very counter productive, and their rabid hatred of GMO's is borderline idiotic. However, on balance, when it comes to environmental protection, they are the good guys, and anyone thats been paying attention knows who the bad guys are.
    We sure do know who the bad guys are and three of them are the last three DEMOCRAT governors that have PERMITTED storing dangerous chemicals close to major waterways not only endangering their own citizens but now endangering surrounding states. Idiots.
    Last edited by vesper; 01-16-14 at 11:15 AM.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Two days into this thread, and I've yet to see the source for the "lack of regulation enforcement" charge.
    That's because I happen to have something called "a life" outside of this forum. You'll get your answer now. My answer is May 26, 2011, when the EPA was gutted to the tune of 16% by both Obama and the Republicans. Specifically targeted and gutted was funds for reducing pollution by coal and power plants. It is ironic that the West Virginia spill was of a chemical used to treat coal.

    By comparison, defense spending was increased by 5%. If the entire Federal government had been cut by the amount the EPA was cut, there would be no deficit at all. But it was the EPA that was targeted and gutted, which resulted in massive layoffs of EPA personnel. Like I said before, you can have all the regulations you want to, but if you don't have the funds to do the enforcement, then you essentially have no regulations at all, at least not any regulations that count for anything.

    NOTE: As of today, there are still 150,000 people without water in the town, and there are dozens in the hospital with symptoms of chemical poisoning. And some people are whining that some company's rights are being violated by regulation? No, the people in the hospital, as well as the people who still have no water, are the ones who had their rights violated.
    Last edited by danarhea; 01-16-14 at 11:16 AM.
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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Two days into this thread, and I've yet to see the source for the "lack of regulation enforcement" charge.
    How's this?


    Site of West Virginia Chemical Spill Hasn't Been Inspected Since 1991
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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Funding for the EPA has rose feverishly in the past 5 years under Obama. It got cut during sequestration but in the new budget deal those cuts have been restored. The article in the OP clearly stated that the EPA had inspected the cite multiple times the past few years. There were no violations given even though the location storing chemicals was close to a waterway.
    It was cut by 18% prior to sequestration. Your argument doesn't square with reality at all.

    House panel approves bill with deep cuts for EPA - Darren Goode - POLITICO.com


    Everyone wants clean air and water but the EPA is currently on steroids pushing an agenda that is based on an unsettled science which is absolutely absurd by any standards.
    Given their voting records, I think one could argue that congressional Republicans really don't care much about clean air and water. Moreover, a full 48% of the EPA's budget goes to water protection. Only a small percentage is devoted to climate change.

    Once again, you are being disingenuous over regulations based on an unsettled science. The funding for the EPA was super increased in the past few years,...... trimming it back is hardly an act of a doomsday scenario you paint. It was the sequester that cut the funding and that was done in agreement by both Democrats and Republicans. And none of this has anything to do with the weak/loose rules in West Virginia, a state where Democrat governors have been in control for 13 years. If Democrats are the shining stars and the only ones to trust on environmental issues then please explain why the last three Democrat governors in the state of West Virginia have allowed the storage of dangerous chemicals next to major waterways and it didn't become a problem for them until there was a leak! I live in Ohio. The chemical has now made its way into the Ohio River and has been detected at Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky.
    Coal country Democrats are hardly better than coal country Republicans. In both cases they are bought and paid for by the coal industry.

    We sure do know who the bad guys are and three of them are the last three DEMOCRAT governors that have PERMITTED storing dangerous chemicals close to major waterways not only endangering their own citizens but now endangering surrounding states. Idiots.
    Frankly, that is a stupid argument. Where in West Virginia would you store these chemicals that would not allow them to potentially leak into a waterway? Have you ever seen a topographic map of that state? There are no desert basins that would make ideal storage for hazardous chemicals.

    Notice the map below:

    westvirginia_usgs2.jpg

    There is either a river or stream in everyone of those valleys and hollers. Where in that state do you propose hazardous chemicals be stored?
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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by danahhea
    That's because I happen to have something called "a life" outside of this forum.
    I don't know where you got your quote for this thread, since it doesn't match the article you linked, hence my original question. I asked the question twice yesterday, I didn't get a response, but you responded elsewhere in the thread. Doesn't mater, Ditto found one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Thank You. The original article doesn't mention regulations or inspections, and I appreciate the link. The linked WSJ article within has lots of specifics. The chemical, MCHM, is on a list of potentially hazardous chemicals, but has never been studied for its effects on humans. That probably explains why there were no local or state inspections, although, federal inspections are supposed to happen yearly on above ground chemical retention units.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    It was cut by 18% prior to sequestration. Your argument doesn't square with reality at all.

    House panel approves bill with deep cuts for EPA - Darren Goode - POLITICO.com
    What the House passes can not become reality unless the Democrat held Senate agrees to it. So your argument doesn't square.



    Given their voting records, I think one could argue that congressional Republicans really don't care much about clean air and water. Moreover, a full 48% of the EPA's budget goes to water protection. Only a small percentage is devoted to climate change.
    The rules and regulations pouring out of the EPA are in the majority pertaining to the unsettled science of Climate Change. What makes it bad is this agency makes the rules and can bypass Congress in getting them implemented. And for the record the EPA was started by a Republican.


    Coal country Democrats are hardly better than coal country Republicans. In both cases they are bought and paid for by the coal industry.
    No doubt some candidates Democrats and Republicans benefit from the lobbies of the coal industry where thousands have already lost their jobs. Just as others have received much funding from enviornmentalists to help make West Virginia their poster child. But it is worth noting that not one senate seat has been occupied by a Republican from West Virginia since Ike was president. And the last three governors have been Democrats.


    Frankly, that is a stupid argument. Where in West Virginia would you store these chemicals that would not allow them to potentially leak into a waterway? Have you ever seen a topographic map of that state? There are no desert basins that would make ideal storage for hazardous chemicals.


    Notice the map below:

    westvirginia_usgs2.jpg

    There is either a river or stream in everyone of those valleys and hollers. Where in that state do you propose hazardous chemicals be stored?
    But there is certainly technology available to make the containers more safe that store these chemicals. Especially this particular chemical that leaked, that has been approved to be used to lower the ash on coal to meet regulations the EPA has recently set.
    Last edited by vesper; 01-16-14 at 01:11 PM.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It seems only Bush 1 cared about the environment.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    It seems only Bush 1 cared about the environment.
    So did Nixon. He created the EPA.
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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    So did Nixon. He created the EPA.
    Nixon is generally considered the best democrat, democrats ever had.

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