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Thread: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Of course! If you're a Republican, blame the Democrats, and vice versa. That will fix things.

    Or, we could ask ourselves just who approved having tanks of toxic chemicals on a river and just upstream from a drinking water facility.

    Or, better yet, how many more tanks of toxic chemicals are located on or near waterways? Maybe the time to move them would be before there is another spill.
    It seems rather reckless to allow such chemicals stored where they could endanger waterways in the first place. Yet according to the article West Virginia's Environmental Protection Agency was well aware of the practice as they had been to the cite multiple times over the past few years. The governorship in West Virginia has been in control by Democrats for 13 years. It's the environmentalists that provided money, zeal and manpower to Democrats to get them elected. What is so ironic is the chemical that leaked into the river is used to treat coal to cut down on the ash by orders of the EPA as they have declared coal ash hazardous.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    It seems rather reckless to allow such chemicals stored where they could endanger waterways in the first place. Yet according to the article West Virginia's Environmental Protection Agency was well aware of the practice as they had been to the cite multiple times over the past few years. The governorship in West Virginia has been in control by Democrats for 13 years. It's the environmentalists that provided money, zeal and manpower to Democrats to get them elected. What is so ironic is the chemical that leaked into the river is used to treat coal to cut down on the ash by orders of the EPA as they have declared coal ash hazardous.
    Greetings, Vesper. Is now the time that we get to ask "Do you EPA people know what you're doing....please make up your minds!" Unelected officials again making the rules that make the news....

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Now that is vintage libertarianism.

    Just remember, we're all in this world together, and what we do almost always affects others in some way. This chemical spill is a classic example of that.

    BTW, while we're on this news topic: So much for "clean coal."
    Clean Coal is an absurd term anyway. Even if we could burn it 100% cleanly, we still would be blowing entire mountains up to get it. Thats why I don't get the knee jerk reaction to natural gas fracking. Natural gas replaces coal, the worst case scenario in terms of environmental impacts for natural gas extraction has nothing on coal extraction. Getting off of coal would be the single best thing we could do for environmental protection.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    There already is a ton of regulation to protect the planet. The problem is enforcement, not a lack of regulation.
    Money and those who control it are above the law.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I have trouble believing that the majority of today's libertarians and conservatives believe that.

    Otherwise, our waters, skies, food, and so many other basic commodities would be much safer for humans.
    It has to be in your face and indisputable like this before they'll even consider regulations most of the time. Most of them will not wake up until the damage to the Earth is obvious and horrifying (more so than it already is).

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    It seems rather reckless to allow such chemicals stored where they could endanger waterways in the first place. Yet according to the article West Virginia's Environmental Protection Agency was well aware of the practice as they had been to the cite multiple times over the past few years. The governorship in West Virginia has been in control by Democrats for 13 years. It's the environmentalists that provided money, zeal and manpower to Democrats to get them elected. What is so ironic is the chemical that leaked into the river is used to treat coal to cut down on the ash by orders of the EPA as they have declared coal ash hazardous.
    Energy and mining industry interests out spend environmental interests by more than 100 to 1 in terms of lobbying and contributions. They write their own rules. While Democrats, especially coal country ones, are far from perfect on environmental protection, they are infinitely better than today's Republicans are. Remember last time we had a Republican running things his Secretary of the Interior was a Mining Industry Lobbyist. His head of the forest service was a Timber Industry Lobbyist. The problem is not environmental groups, its the industry groups and the politicians they own.

    Lobbying spending by Energy and Natural Resources for 2013: $261,382,097
    http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top...&showYear=2013

    Lobbying spending by Environmental Groups: $10,836,933

    And we wonder why Environmental Regulation and Enforcement is so watered down.

    By the way, coal ash is hazardous, the biggest environmental disaster in U.S. history was a ash / slurry spill in Tennessee. I swear, what is with some people constantly wanting to shoot the good guys...
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 01-15-14 at 07:37 PM.
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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Regulations are pointless if there is not money for enforcement. The State Environmental Protection Agency in China has plenty of regulations, its problem is they do not fund it, and thus it cannot enforce its regulations.

    Environmental Protection should not be a partisan issue. There was a time that it was not a partisan issue. Unfortunately, those days ended about the time Nixon left office. Today environmental protection is very much a partisan issue. You have Democrats largely in favor of stronger environmental protections and enforcement, and you have Republicans largely against them.

    The League of Conservation Voters issues a scorecard every year based on voting Conservation / Environmental Protection Voting Records. In the most recent scorecard, the scores for House and Senate Leadership are as follows:

    Scorecard.jpg

    http://scorecard.lcv.org/sites/score...ecard_2012.pdf

    Unfortunately, trusting today's Republicans with Environmental Protection is about as smart as trusting Bernie Sanders with implementing a pro-business agenda. Luckily, despite many of them being bought and paid for by oil, mining and energy industry lobbyists, weakening environmental protections is so unpopular that they have not been that successful. Of course, anyone paying attention the last 20 years knows that Republicans by and large are very hostile to environmental protection. After all, in the what seemed like dozens of debates for the Republican Presidential Primaries, there was not a one where the EPA and its "job killing regulations" were not roundly bashed. Thus they have taken a different tact, they have weakened enforcement by gutting funding to the EPA:

    Republicans have spent the past two years on the warpath against the Obama administration’s Environmental Protection Agency. As the EPA rolled out an ambitious slate of rules aimed at stopping climate change and curbing power-plant pollution, Republicans on the campaign trail and Capitol Hill slammed the agency as the embodiment of government overreach and so-called “job-killing regulations.”

    Despite the outrage, the GOP’s efforts to stop the agency’s agenda haven’t succeeded—all of the many bills to block or delay EPA’s new regulations have failed in Congress.

    But lawmakers have found another way to strike out at the agency they love to hate—by slashing its budget. Over the past two years, Congress has cut EPA’s budget by a whopping 18 percent, from $10.3 billion to $8.5 billion. And that’s not counting the effects of the across-the-board spending cuts that took effect with sequestration Friday.

    Cutting the agency’s budget doesn’t take away its obligation to enforce environmental laws and implement new regulations, but it has dramatically weakened and slowed EPA’s ability to fulfill its mandate.
    EPA Funding Reductions Have Kneecapped Environmental Enforcement - NationalJournal.com

    I am not saying that environmental organizations and liberals in general are 100% in the right in terms of environmental policy. I think their opposition to Natural Gas Fracking and Nuclear Energy is very counter productive, and their rabid hatred of GMO's is borderline idiotic. However, on balance, when it comes to environmental protection, they are the good guys, and anyone thats been paying attention knows who the bad guys are.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Energy and mining industry interests out spend environmental interests by more than 100 to 1 in terms of lobbying and contributions. They write their own rules. While Democrats, especially coal country ones, are far from perfect on environmental protection, they are infinitely better than today's Republicans are. Remember last time we had a Republican running things his Secretary of the Interior was a Mining Industry Lobbyist. His head of the forest service was a Timber Industry Lobbyist. The problem is not environmental groups, its the industry groups and the politicians they own.

    Lobbying spending by Energy and Natural Resources for 2013: $261,382,097
    Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

    Lobbying spending by Environmental Groups: $10,836,933

    And we wonder why Environmental Regulation and Enforcement is so watered down.

    By the way, coal ash is hazardous, the biggest environmental disaster in U.S. history was a ash / slurry spill in Tennessee. I swear, what is with some people constantly wanting to shoot the good guys...
    $261 million vs. $10 million. Dear god, we hardly stand a chance against that kind of money...but we still have a chance, and we'd better use it before the Earth decays into one giant cesspool.
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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    It is currently legal to do this?
    Obviously not.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
    - Mark Twain
    Run your own nation, play Cybernations.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill shines spotlight on loose regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Energy and mining industry interests out spend environmental interests by more than 100 to 1 in terms of lobbying and contributions. They write their own rules. While Democrats, especially coal country ones, are far from perfect on environmental protection, they are infinitely better than today's Republicans are. Remember last time we had a Republican running things his Secretary of the Interior was a Mining Industry Lobbyist. His head of the forest service was a Timber Industry Lobbyist. The problem is not environmental groups, its the industry groups and the politicians they own.

    Lobbying spending by Energy and Natural Resources for 2013: $261,382,097
    Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

    Lobbying spending by Environmental Groups: $10,836,933

    And we wonder why Environmental Regulation and Enforcement is so watered down.

    By the way, coal ash is hazardous, the biggest environmental disaster in U.S. history was a ash / slurry spill in Tennessee. I swear, what is with some people constantly wanting to shoot the good guys...
    Pretty clever with the numbers you quoted. It is no secret that environmental "donations" are way way down. My guess is because all the global warming hype has taken some real hits this past year. People can see the deliberate attack on certain industries in our economy lagging or pretty much on life support due to countless regulations from the "green". And the more the left talks about carbon credits the more people are getting turned off. They get the connection between mountains of new regulations and poor economic growth/loss of jobs. You all had them for awhile when you convinced them the polar bears were drowning in the Arctic. But recent polls show people aren't buying what the left has been selling hence contributions are way down.

    BUT, if you use your same website, you will find a place where they provide graphs during election years for Obama where way much more was spent filling the coffers of Democrats from the environmentalist lobbies. Why in 2008 alone Obama received $1,182,094 from the environmentalist lobbies not to mention the multi millions they gave to other Democrats. But that was at the height of the fear mongering about the polar bears drowning at the North Pole and the sea ice would be gone by 2013 because of carbon That pretty much explains why donations are down.

    Environment: Top Recipients | OpenSecrets

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