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Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Superfly said:
/basement like.

This should actually be the end of the thread, but I'm sure it won't.
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Let's say she was planning to abort the fetus? What changes?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

scatt said:
This woman was in the medical field, and lived in a state that specifically has a law about life support and pregnancy. She may not have known about that law, but she most likely did.
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I wholeheartedly disagree. The law in Texas should be interpreted as keeping a living person alive on life support to maintain the pregnancy. The patient is dead. And her wishes are disrespected. Completely.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

year2late said:
I wholeheartedly disagree. The law in Texas should be interpreted as keeping a living person alive on life support to maintain the pregnancy. The patient is dead. And her wishes are disrespected. Completely.
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They are keeping a living person alive. It's called a baby.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

CanadaJohn said:
Missed the point - my point, and perhaps you're not interested, was that in a hospital setting, if a pregnant woman "died" would the hospital put her immediately on life support to protect the unborn child or would they immediately do a C-section. Again, it's to the issue of how long on life support is too long when it comes to giving an unborn child a chance at survival and a life of his/her own?
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That is a rather obtuse question. If she was to be pronounced brain dead she would have already have been on life support. You cannot declare brain death without a patient being on life support. If she was dead and not on life support she would have been just declared "deceased". And in that case, if she was far enough along, the baby would be delivered by a C-section and taken off of life support.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Superfly said:
They are keeping a living person alive. It's called a baby.
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But it is the mother who is on life support. If the law meant to keep a dead person on life support, it would have said so.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

year2late said:
I wholeheartedly disagree. The law in Texas should be interpreted as keeping a living person alive on life support to maintain the pregnancy. The patient is dead. And her wishes are disrespected. Completely.
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So not only does she not keep up on medical law, she cannot grasp how to read law?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

scatt said:
So not only does she not keep up on medical law, she cannot grasp how to read law?
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Why would she believe that keeping a dead patient on life support was an option? If the law was meant to include keeping dead patients on life support it would have said dead people.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

sawdust said:
John, seems like the husband and the woman's mother are suing the hospital to keep the fetus alive. I can understand this. They've lost a loved on and are hanging on to hope for a memory. I understand their desire and wish them the best in a tragic situation.
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I'm pretty sure it's the opposite, that's why it's a news story. The husband claims the wife had a wish not to be put on life support and her mother and the husband want her taken off the life support that is keeping the chances of the fetus's survival alive. What you've said is exactly what most people would feel in this situation, but it's not what's happening.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

year2late said:
I wholeheartedly disagree. The law in Texas should be interpreted as keeping a living person alive on life support to maintain the pregnancy. The patient is dead. And her wishes are disrespected. Completely.
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This is the first valid point I've heard from the other side - it is true, keeping someone alive who would die if taken off life support is different from putting a dead person on life support. Where we disagree, and I strongly so, is that there is another person, human being, developing entity that by all reports is still alive and that in order to keep the fetus on life support, the dead mother must continue to be used as a part of that life support at least for a period of some weeks if not a few months at which time life support, through the mother, will no longer be necessary.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Very significant is the fact that Marlise Munoz's mother is in agreement with her husband. I wish I could understand where they're coming from. They apparently don't have any hope that the unborn baby can survive and/or be normal. I wonder what they have been told and by whom.

In the meantime, none of us have any idea what's going on in their hearts and minds. But there is no reason to think other than that Marlise's mother and husband loved her very much, are focused on the little boy, and believe they are making the right decision.
 
So if I understand correctly, people who believe this woman should be kept on life support also believe a dead persons organs should be harvested regardless of consent? I'm not sure what the ethical difference would be in regards personal autonomy Vs. the greater good.
 
I guess I've missed the posts about organ-harvesting.
 
nota bene said:
I guess I've missed the posts about organ-harvesting.
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There were none. It's an analogy. Lots if dying people need organs. Should the dead have any say in what happens to their organs?
 
I once had a funeral director explain to me that the deceased have no rights and are dependent on the willingness of the living to honor their wishes.
 
nota bene said:
I once had a funeral director explain to me that the deceased have no rights and are dependent on the willingness of the living to honor their wishes.
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Did that funeral director specify what happens if that deceased person has a living human child inside?

I don't think anybody here has claimed that the deceased woman has rights.

Ben K. said:
So if I understand correctly, people who believe this woman should be kept on life support also believe a dead persons organs should be harvested regardless of consent? I'm not sure what the ethical difference would be in regards personal autonomy Vs. the greater good.
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The woman's organs were already providing life support to a human child when she died. It's not taking her organs and repurposing them for another person.
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
Did that funeral director specify what happens if that deceased person has a living human child inside?

I don't think anybody here has claimed that the deceased woman has rights.
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No, he didn't. And I was responding specifically to Ben, not trying to make a point.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Did that funeral director specify what happens if that deceased person has a living human child inside?

I don't think anybody here has claimed that the deceased woman has rights.



The woman's organs were already providing life support to a human child when she died. It's not taking her organs and repurposing them for another person.
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You've got to be kidding me. Why would it matter what or how the organs are used? The organs would die without intervention. If the state can decide to take control of her body in death for the greater good, they should be able to take control of everyone's corpse.
 
Ben K. said:
You've got to be kidding me. Why would it matter what or how the organs are used? The organs would die without intervention. If the state can decide to take control of her body in death for the greater good, they should be able to take control of everyone's corpse.
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Incorrect. Her body was already on life support when she died, which is subsequently providing life support for the human child. To come in and remove her body from that life support would kill the child, thus causing more harm.

It's a terrible, horrible tragedy that this woman died, but we don't need to raise the body count. She's dead, and she had given her organs to her unborn child. It'd be kind of like wanting the organs back from someone after you already died and donated them. And it's not for the greater good, it's so that her child can continue living.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Incorrect. Her body was already on life support when she died, which is subsequently providing life support for the human child. To come in and remove her body from that life support would kill the child, thus causing more harm.

It's a terrible, horrible tragedy that this woman died, but we don't need to raise the body count. She's dead, and she had given her organs to her unborn child. It'd be kind of like wanting the organs back from someone after you already died and donated them. And it's not for the greater good, it's so that her child can continue living.
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And organ harvesting is done to keep people living. The CF patient or the liver cirrhosis patient, why is this child's life worth more?

And no, it's nothing like giving away your organs and taking them back. It's having expressed wishes with how your body should be dealt with in death. There was no renege.

It's sad I agree. I find it incredibly upsetting when people refuse to donate their organs too.
 
Ben K. said:
And organ harvesting is done to keep people living. The CF patient or the liver cirrhosis patient, why is this child's life worth more?

And no, it's nothing like giving away your organs and taking them back. It's having expressed wishes with how your body should be dealt with in death. There was no renege.

It's sad I agree. I find it incredibly upsetting when people refuse to donate their organs too.
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There's a pretty major difference between this situation and normal organ donation though. Imagine this situation (it's abstract, but you should get the point): A person falls dead and lands on a dead man's switch to a bomb. If the body is lifted, it will detonate the bomb and kill more human beings. Should this body be removed IMMEDIATELY, with no regard for other human lives, because that person wanted to be buried immediately, or should we maybe consider that granting her wishes will kill other people, and should wait until the other people can be brought to safety, THEN grant her wishes?

Her body was already keeping someone else alive when she died, it wasn't like she died, then her organs got harvested to save lives.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
There's a pretty major difference between this situation and normal organ donation though. Imagine this situation (it's abstract, but you should get the point): A person falls dead and lands on a dead man's switch to a bomb. If the body is lifted, it will detonate the bomb and kill more human beings. Should this body be removed IMMEDIATELY, with no regard for other human lives, because that person wanted to be buried immediately, or should we maybe consider that granting her wishes will kill other people, and should wait until the other people can be brought to safety, THEN grant her wishes?

Her body was already keeping someone else alive when she died, it wasn't like she died, then her organs got harvested to save lives.
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Working with that analogy, should an already dead body be used to cover the bomb?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

year2late said:
Why would she believe that keeping a dead patient on life support was an option?
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Because that is the law.
 
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