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Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

well im playing catch up and im going to state what i think the facts are please correct me if wrong

woman is brain dead
woman is 20 weeks pregnant (incident happened at 14 weeks)
woman had order to not be on life support
woman is married making her husband legally and medically in control
Texas law prohibits it from following a family/will directive when a pregnancy is involved.
Father also wants to abort because of possible damage to the Fetus

as i could tell, seems those are the facts, please correct me if im wrong


if the above is true the Texas state law violates rights in my simply opinion because it disregards the woman's rights and RvW and puts an extra restriction that is above and beyond RvW.

the womans will/order/wishes should be done AND since the father is alive and married so should his

Now since the unconstitutional law exists it does have to be challenged so thats that. there has to be a court case.

What should happen to this law is what has happened to many other laws, since it goes against RvW it should be removed and struck down, since it wills/individual rights it should also be struck down.

Keeping a woman alive 10 weeks or longer against her wishes, husbands wishes and family wishes is horrible and then during medical procedures on her body afterwords is also horrible.

Having said all that, again though, the law is on the books and currently the hospital is within their legal right. Im glad this is going to court and the law should be struck down.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

rjay said:
If we are abdicating for human incubators then maybe we should have women sign body donation cards. This would indicate their desires to have their deceased bodies used as incubators in the event of untimely deaths. We can inject from test-tubes into these incubators. That way the eventual parents can go about their lives and pop by the hospital to pick their baby up when the time comes. None of this morning sickness, extended belly, or stretch mark nonsense.


How gruesome do we want to get?
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That's just beyond asinine.

You make it sound like she wasn't pregnant of her own free will and carrying the child when she met her demise. I'm not a woman, but I have a far cry more respect for mothers, motherhood, and the extent to which mothers will protect the health and lives of their children than you seem to have.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

rocket88 said:
So infertile people should be euthanized since there's no "function" to their existence?
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Weren't you just requesting a few posts ago that people keep their eye on the topic and not bring in irrelevant nonsense?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lutherf said:
Where the hell do you get euthanasia or "punishment" from what I said? All I'm talking about is making decisions based on what is most likely to continue the species. If you're not actively participating in propagating the species that's your business but when you have a choice in a case like what we are discussing then it only makes sense to choose the path that best serves the species.
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Our species is not remotely in danger of continuing and if it is, it is not connected to abortion. Way more women choose to give birth than abort. So why not respect the wishes of the family? THEY are the ones directly affected by having to raise a child with no mother and very possibly severely disabled (with a higher chance of never reproducing itself)...and the species will not be affected at all.

What kind of perspective are you using here? Goodness! You put their feelings & lives last?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lursa said:
You are mistaken.
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So, explain to me how women who seek abortions before 24 weeks but object to that limit being reduced to 20 claim that between the 20 and 24 week period many physical and mental fetal abnormalities become evident? Are they lying?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

CanadaJohn said:
As I said before, I don't know a single woman who wouldn't do all she could to save the life of her child. I have no reason to believe she would want to do otherwise.
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Many women, and couples, choose to abort with the information that their baby will be born severely defective or with little/no chance of surviving. Why do you think we run all those genetic tests, sonograms, etc?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

CanadaJohn said:
So, explain to me how women who seek abortions before 24 weeks but object to that limit being reduced to 20 claim that between the 20 and 24 week period many physical and mental fetal abnormalities become evident? Are they lying?
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These would not be external 'physical' abnormalities caused O2 deprivation. Some mental abnormalities are discoverable by DNA tests and chemical/hormonal tests. The damage by O2 deprivation is not straightforward like that.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lursa said:
Many women, and couples, choose to abort with the information that their baby will be born severely defective or with little/no chance of surviving. Why do you think we run all those genetic tests, sonograms, etc?
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But you just finished saying I was mistaken when I said doctors could fairly easily determine if the fetus has physical or mental damage.

Are you now arguing with yourself?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lursa said:
Our species is not remotely in danger of continuing and if it is, it is not connected to abortion. Way more women choose to give birth than abort. So why not respect the wishes of the family? THEY are the ones directly affected by having to raise a child with no mother and very possibly severely disabled (with a higher chance of never reproducing itself)...and the species will not be affected at all.

What kind of perspective are you using here? Goodness! You put their feelings & lives last?
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I simply put the preservation of life first.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

CanadaJohn said:
But you just finished saying I was mistaken when I said doctors could fairly easily determine if the fetus has physical or mental damage.

Are you now arguing with yourself?
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I believe I said they could NOT. Which number post is it? Or what page? Perhaps I wrote it incorrectly.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lutherf said:
I simply put the preservation of life first.
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Good. That's fine. For *you.*
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lursa said:
Good. That's fine. For *you.*
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I apologize if my opinion has somehow or other managed to create an imposition on you or anyone else but my understanding of what we were doing here was discussing our opinions.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lutherf said:
I apologize if my opinion has somehow or other managed to create an imposition on you or anyone else but my understanding of what we were doing here was discussing our opinions.
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And that's what I mean. I dont even think it's a bad opinion. I just think that it's fine to express it. And to act on it.

But not to impose it on others. And I apologize if I did imply that you would force it on others if you had the opportunity.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lursa said:
And that's what I mean. I dont even think it's a bad opinion. I just think that it's fine to express it. And to act on it.

But not to impose it on others. And I apologize if I did imply that you would force it on others if you had the opportunity.
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I'm not in the decision making process for the hospital or for the family but if I was I would be siding with the hospital....obviously.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lursa said:
I believe I said they could NOT. Which number post is it? Or what page? Perhaps I wrote it incorrectly.
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In my post 166, I said that doctors could readily determine if a fetus had physical or mental damage and they would not try to bring to term a fetus that could not survive.

You said I was mistaken and then later said people seek abortions when they find out their unborn child has physical or mental abnormalities.

Either doctors can determine it or they can't - make up your mind.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

CanadaJohn said:
In my post 166, I said that doctors could readily determine if a fetus had physical or mental damage and they would not try to bring to term a fetus that could not survive.

You said I was mistaken and then later said people seek abortions when they find out their unborn child has physical or mental abnormalities.

Either doctors can determine it or they can't - make up your mind.
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Yes, and if you saw my post to Lutherf, I made a distinction.

People DO seek abortions later when they find out there are abnormalities, *however* such defects that may be caused by O2 deprivation are not necessarily detectable..and maybe not at all. Perhaps much later when normal physical movement is not present or is less. But O2 deprivation injuries occur in the brain....and are not detectable like other things like Down Syndrome which is found by DNA analysis, or other things from examination or chemical/hormonal analysis.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lursa said:
Many women, and couples, choose to abort with the information that their baby will be born severely defective or with little/no chance of surviving. Why do you think we run all those genetic tests, sonograms, etc?
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Because doctors are never wrong, right? My youngest daughter? When I had my first ultrasound, the tech told me that there was a hole in her heart, which could be attributed to Down's Syndrome and a myriad of other issues. Good thing I didn't listen to her. Right now, I have a beautiful, thriving 14 year old who wears pink braces, is taking Honors and AP classes, and is learning to speak French and play the guitar. She gave me incorrect information, which could have had a horrible outcome, had I been the kind of parent who would rather abort, and just wait on the perfect child.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Superfly said:
Because doctors are never wrong, right? My youngest daughter? When I had my first ultrasound, the tech told me that there was a hole in her heart, which could be attributed to Down's Syndrome and a myriad of other issues. Good thing I didn't listen to her. Right now, I have a beautiful, thriving 14 year old who wears pink braces, is taking Honors and AP classes, and is learning to speak French and play the guitar. She gave me incorrect information, which could have had a horrible outcome, had I been the kind of parent who would rather abort, and just wait on the perfect child.
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I'm willing to bet, from your comments, that if you had a "do not resuscitate" order or no life support order you wouldn't be thinking that, if pregnant, you'd want to take your developing child down with you. People don't think about all the implications of end of life decisions when they're of child bearing age.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

CanadaJohn said:
I'm willing to bet, from your comments, that if you had a "do not resuscitate" order or no life support order you wouldn't be thinking that, if pregnant, you'd want to take your developing child down with you. People don't think about all the implications of end of life decisions when they're of child bearing age.
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Exactly. That's why I mentioned earlier in the thread that, I can't imagine the mother would want the DNR honored if she were pregnant. Most mothers (at least the ones who want the baby) would never, ever do anything to harm the baby. I'd bet money she'd want to remain on life support while the baby developed enough to live outside the womb.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Superfly said:
Because doctors are never wrong, right? My youngest daughter? When I had my first ultrasound, the tech told me that there was a hole in her heart, which could be attributed to Down's Syndrome and a myriad of other issues. Good thing I didn't listen to her. Right now, I have a beautiful, thriving 14 year old who wears pink braces, is taking Honors and AP classes, and is learning to speak French and play the guitar. She gave me incorrect information, which could have had a horrible outcome, had I been the kind of parent who would rather abort, and just wait on the perfect child.
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How wonderful! And just as wonderful...you had the CHOICE to look at your family, your lives, your circumstances, and make the best decision for your family.

I think it's nice to respect other families and their choices and circumstances as well.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Superfly said:
Because doctors are never wrong, right? My youngest daughter? When I had my first ultrasound, the tech told me that there was a hole in her heart, which could be attributed to Down's Syndrome and a myriad of other issues. Good thing I didn't listen to her. Right now, I have a beautiful, thriving 14 year old who wears pink braces, is taking Honors and AP classes, and is learning to speak French and play the guitar. She gave me incorrect information, which could have had a horrible outcome, had I been the kind of parent who would rather abort, and just wait on the perfect child.
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A simple "like" is not quite adequate.

As someone who could have been killed needlessly based on overblown reports of risk, you get massive respec knuckles from me (as does my mom).
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lursa said:
How wonderful! And just as wonderful...you had the CHOICE to look at your family, your lives, your circumstances, and make the best decision for your family.

I think it's nice to respect other families and their choices and circumstances as well.
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correct it is a wonderful story and you are correct also especially the bolded parts

basic common sense like this is sometimes clouded by the blindness of emotion

good job being logical and rational
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

I think the issue is that she didn't want life support, but the hospital put her on life support anyway. Letting a family member died naturally is a little different than turning off the life support system.

My understanding is that she's not even 4 months pregnant, so she's going to be on this life support system for a really long time.

And I think the husband should sue if the hospital actually expects him to pay the bill.


JayDubya said:
Not unheard of... certainly doesn't happen very often... not insane.

The mom's dead, the kid isn't. You can't save the mom. You have no reason whatsoever to kill the kid. Makes sense.

Hospital is only "refusing" to break the law.
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Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

He doesn't want to kill his child. He wanted to honor his wife's wish everything using white support, but the hospital put her on life support anyway. For that he is suing. If the child is unhealthy, he should sue for that too.


WCH said:
The uncertainty of the child's health is the reason the Dad and mother are wanting to kill it. They don't want the responsibility of caring for the child if it isn't normal.
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