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Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lursa said:
The legal document states her wishes.
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Was she not aware of the Texas law?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

CanadaJohn said:
There's nothing natural, or human nature, to let any human simply die without doing what's possible to save him/her. Even in veterinary medicine, attempts are made to save the unborn when the carrying mother dies or is fatally injured.

If this woman had been 8 months pregnant, would you say she and her unborn child should both be left to die?
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If we are abdicating for human incubators then maybe we should have women sign body donation cards. This would indicate their desires to have their deceased bodies used as incubators in the event of untimely deaths. We can inject from test-tubes into these incubators. That way the eventual parents can go about their lives and pop by the hospital to pick their baby up when the time comes. None of this morning sickness, extended belly, or stretch mark nonsense.


How gruesome do we want to get?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Why is this so hard to understand?

The primary function of our [all] species is to procreate. We develop all kinds of ways to facilitate that primary function and to keep our offspring alive and healthy so it doesn't make a lick of sense to unhook the woman as long as leaving her hooked up has a reasonable possibility of producing a healthy baby.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

rocket88 said:
That sounds familiar
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Everyone in this thread who keep dodging if she wanted to be removed from life support while pregnant.

And this isn't even the legal problems the woman has regarding the directive.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

JayDubya said:
There are two patients, one is savable, the other is already gone.

Between the two of them, the savable one is the one without documentation saying he or she wants to die in this situation.

Triage.
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I'm not aware of any example of triage in action that tramples over the expressed wishes of one of the affected in how their body is treated in death.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

JayDubya said:
I respect advance directives and patient autonomy...

It's just I can't see any validity in applying it when there are two patients and one has no such documentation. Are we simply to assume the kid wants to die, despite our ability to save him or her?
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LMAO at the expectation...and even more that LAW and action should be based on it...that a fetus would have a legal document stating its wishes.

Again....you reduce the topics at hand to comedic levels....when there really is no humor.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

JayDubya said:
There are two patients, one is savable, the other is already gone.

Between the two of them, the savable one is the one without documentation saying he or she wants to die in this situation.

Triage.
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But, you have to completely ignore one person's rights in order to do so.

Say you have two patients, one brain dead with healthy kidneys, and the other saveable with a new kidney. If patient one is not an organ donor, you can't take his kidney even to save the other. It's about consent, even if you assume that they might want to be a donor in that situation. You are assuming that she would want to be kept alive until the baby is born, but you have a legally binding piece of paper in your hand that says "no life support." She didn't consent to this, and you're happy to assume that she would.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lutherf said:
Why is this so hard to understand?

The primary function of our [all] species is to procreate. We develop all kinds of ways to facilitate that primary function and to keep our offspring alive and healthy so it doesn't make a lick of sense to unhook the woman as long as leaving her hooked up has a reasonable possibility of producing a healthy baby.
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Do you have any punishments in mind for us that choose not to procreate? I mean...this woman is defenseless now and looks to her legal statement and family to uphold her wishes. She is vulnerable to the type of disrespectful attack on her that you are proposing.

The rest of us tho...we will continue to fight for our rights and what is left of hers.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

scatt said:
Everyone in this thread who keep dodging if she wanted to be removed from life support while pregnant.

And this isn't even the legal problems the woman has regarding the directive.
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Or those assuming that she would want it. Unless she consented to it, I can't assume that she would.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lutherf said:
Why is this so hard to understand?

The primary function of our [all] species is to procreate. We develop all kinds of ways to facilitate that primary function and to keep our offspring alive and healthy so it doesn't make a lick of sense to unhook the woman as long as leaving her hooked up has a reasonable possibility of producing a healthy baby.
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So infertile people should be euthanized since there's no "function" to their existence?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

rocket88 said:
Or those assuming that she would want it.
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Or those assuming she was not aware of the law regarding life support and pregnant women in Texas.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lursa said:
LMAO at the expectation...and even more that LAW and action should be based on it...that a fetus would have a legal document stating its wishes.

Again....you reduce the topics at hand to comedic levels....when there really is no humor.
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Feel free to go lie about and troll someone else.

The point was clear, no such document could exist.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

scatt said:
Or those assuming she was not aware of the law regarding life support and pregnant women in Texas.
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Considering you're the one who can't answer a question except with another question, I don't think that I'm the one dodging.

I know it's the law, I argue that it shouldn't be as I've said from the beginning. Now you can either argue against it, or you can dodge again.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

rocket88 said:
I know it's the law, I argue that it shouldn't be as I've said from the beginning.
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I already clarified how I do not support any state intervention into the situation at all.

The problem that arises if the woman already knew the Texas law is pretty important.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

ttwtt78640 said:
The issue, as I understand it, is what the estimated one hour of oxygen deprivation may have done to the unborn child. Since the mother died from that oxygen loss, it is very likely that the unborn child has suffered serious damage from that as well. State law says that the unborn must receive any and all medical aid available, but that may result in a severely impaired child that will require a lifetime of constant care from the family. IMHO, it should be up to the surviving family (the potential father) to decide whether to take that risk or not.
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If I'm not mistaken, it's not too hard for doctors to determine the mental and physical health of the fetus. If, as you suggest, the fetus has suffered serious damage, I can't imagine they will attempt to bring the child to term.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

JayDubya said:
Feel free to go lie about and troll someone else.

The point was clear, no such document could exist.
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And as such, even the mention of that fantasy has no place in the discussion. If we could make your fantasies real regarding fetuses, they would just completely form and walk out of the uterus day of implantation, carrying guns with bayonets to fend off the 'aggressors', and emerge into society. Perhaps you should work with medical technologies on methods to arm fetuses? Then they could sign documents, use weapons, etc.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

CanadaJohn said:
If I'm not mistaken, it's not too hard for doctors to determine the mental and physical health of the fetus. If, as you suggest, the fetus has suffered serious damage, I can't imagine they will attempt to bring the child to term.
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You are mistaken.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

scatt said:
I already clarified how I do not support any state intervention into the situation at all.

The problem that arises if the woman already knew the Texas law is pretty important.
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The law being what it is, the hospital is doing the right thing legally.

However, given that her directive stated no life support, I think the law is wrong.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

JayDubya said:
....

I'm sorry, of course you're right that this case is different in that here we have destructive selfishness on display... hopefully just brought on by irrational grief.



A kid's medical expenses are usually paid for by their parents, are they not?
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So you would saddle the widower and his son with the medical expenses associated with keeping his dead wife on life-support, against her stated wishes. Not only that, but you decide that protecting himself and his son against this crippling debt is selfish.

A fourteen week old fetus went an hour without oxygen. If during a birth a baby goes without oxygen for 3 minutes the results can be severe.

Why do you hold these views? You fear that any empathy shown to the living loved ones of this poor women, may contradict your position on abortion. We are not talking about abortion. We are talking about letting a family grieve and get on with their lives by respecting the wishes of the deceased.

Dead people should not be used as incubators.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

rocket88 said:
However, given that her directive stated no life support, I think the law is wrong.
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Unless of course she knew about the law.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

scatt said:
Unless of course she knew about the law.
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As I said, I think the law is wrong. Does the law allow for her to state it directly?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Lursa said:
Do you have any punishments in mind for us that choose not to procreate? I mean...this woman is defenseless now and looks to her legal statement and family to uphold her wishes. She is vulnerable to the type of disrespectful attack on her that you are proposing.

The rest of us tho...we will continue to fight for our rights and what is left of hers.
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rocket88 said:
So infertile people should be euthanized since there's no "function" to their existence?
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Where the hell do you get euthanasia or "punishment" from what I said? All I'm talking about is making decisions based on what is most likely to continue the species. If you're not actively participating in propagating the species that's your business but when you have a choice in a case like what we are discussing then it only makes sense to choose the path that best serves the species.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

rocket88 said:
As I said, I think the law is wrong. Does the law allow for her to state it directly?
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She may have thought it was right. Doubtful.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

lizzie said:
No, but that is a different set of circumstances. In this one, just as in the abortion issue, the mother's wishes should be the first considered. As much as I understand the anti-abortion side of this issue, the mother did not want life support in the case of her death.
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I appreciate that but abortion is not an issue here - for all we know at this point, the woman was pro-life - she was, after all, carrying a child at the time of her demise. As another stated, how does one know that she'd feel the same about life support if she had known she'd have been pregnant at the time of application. Do people who have end of life provisions really think about the possibility they'd be pregnant at the time?

As I said before, I don't know a single woman who wouldn't do all she could to save the life of her child. I have no reason to believe she would want to do otherwise.
 
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