Page 83 of 87 FirstFirst ... 33738182838485 ... LastLast
Results 821 to 830 of 863

Thread: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

  1. #821
    Guru
    Ben K.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,717

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Not poorly worded. It clearly states life sustaining equipment from the pregnant patient". The patient is dead.

    Poorly worded, no. People with an agenda reading into the law perhaps. Can you imagine our legislation having to add "oh, but the way, this does not pertain to a corpse"? We would never write that, because it is idiotic.

    The law clearly was intended for incapacated patients. Not corpses.
    You can clearly see from my posting in this thread that I do not have an agenda of keeping this woman on life support.

    You just seem incapable of understanding that it says life sustaining treatment shall not be withdrawn in the case of pregnancy. In obstetric care there are two patients. It is quite understandable to read into the law that life-sustaining treatment shall not be removed from the mother or the fetus, if one is alive.

    And no, obviously I wouldn't write it like that because it doesn't clarify anything.

  2. #822
    Sage



    Join Date
    May 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,247

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    You can clearly see from my posting in this thread that I do not have an agenda of keeping this woman on life support.

    You just seem incapable of understanding that it says life sustaining treatment shall not be withdrawn in the case of pregnancy. In obstetric care there are two patients. It is quite understandable to read into the law that life-sustaining treatment shall not be removed from the mother or the fetus, if one is alive.

    And no, obviously I wouldn't write it like that because it doesn't clarify anything.
    If the law pertained to a dead patient it would say so. The law pertained to a living, but incapacitated pregnant patient.

    Put it this way. Death by cardiac causes is legally, morally, and medically just as dead as death by "brain death". The laws have gone out of they way to prove this. See the Uniform Determination of Death Act. Since this is a give....why not treat them the same way? What would we do if this woman was dead by cardiac death? If the fetus was near or past the point of viability outside the womb, they would do a crash C-section and deliver the baby. This should be the rule, not the exception. If a family wants to petition the court to keep the dead body on machines (like the McMath family) - so be it. But keeping corpses on machines should not be considered a reasonable response - especially in anything but the very short term.(ie long enough to get family together and to understand the concept of brain death as death or to harvest organs)

    From the Uniform Determination of Death Act

    Determination of Death. An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem, is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards

  3. #823
    Sage



    Join Date
    May 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,247

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    From the actual law that the hospital states is making them keep the corpse on the machines.

    (10) "Life-sustaining treatment" means treatment that, based on reasonable medical judgment, sustains the life of a patient and without which the patient will die. The term includes both life-sustaining medications and artificial life support, such as mechanical breathing machines, kidney dialysis treatment, and artificial nutrition and hydration. The term does not include the administration of pain management medication or the performance of a medical procedure considered to be necessary to provide comfort care, or any other medical care provided to alleviate a patient's pain.
    The patient is dead.

    The woman is not a life support machine. The patient is the woman, not the fetus. The law is clear. It is disgusting that it is taking this so long to get to the courts.

  4. #824
    Guru
    Ben K.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,717

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    If the law pertained to a dead patient it would say so. The law pertained to a living, but incapacitated pregnant patient.

    Put it this way. Death by cardiac causes is legally, morally, and medically just as dead as death by "brain death". The laws have gone out of they way to prove this. See the Uniform Determination of Death Act. Since this is a give....why not treat them the same way? What would we do if this woman was dead by cardiac death? If the fetus was near or past the point of viability outside the womb, they would do a crash C-section and deliver the baby. This should be the rule, not the exception. If a family wants to petition the court to keep the dead body on machines (like the McMath family) - so be it. But keeping corpses on machines should not be considered a reasonable response - especially in anything but the very short term.(ie long enough to get family together and to understand the concept of brain death as death or to harvest organs)

    From the Uniform Determination of Death Act
    Sweet Jesus. I know she is dead. Try reading what someone is saying. In obstetrics, there are two patients. The life sustaining treatment is keeping the fetus alive.

    Why do you think the law exists in the first place - because they view the fetus as patient.
    Last edited by Ben K.; 01-24-14 at 10:51 AM.

  5. #825
    Farts in Elevators
    OscarB63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    09-06-14 @ 07:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,526

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    according to the family's lawyers, the fetus is "distinctly abnormal"

    Yahoo!

    According to the medical records we have been provided, the fetus is distinctly abnormal," attorneys Heather King and Jessica Hall Janicek said in a statement Wednesday. They cited extreme deformation of lower limbs and brain abnormalities.
    If this is the case, the time has come to pull the plug.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  6. #826
    Sage



    Join Date
    May 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,247

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Sweet Jesus. I know she is dead. Try reading what someone is saying. In obstetrics, there are two patients. The life sustaining treatment is keeping the fetus alive.

    Why do you think the law exists in the first place - because they view the fetus as patient.
    If a living pregnant woman goes into the hospital at 14 weeks gestation....only one patient is listed. The mother. The fetus is not a patient until he leaves the womb. Then you have a patient.

  7. #827
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,903

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    That is apparently not how the hospital has seen it.

    It has stated with confidence that it is following the law, and whatever the court decides, I am sure the hospital will continue to do so.

    Perhaps state law will be clarified because of today's hearing; as I posted earlier (post #806), an SMU law prof who helped revise the most recent update of the Advanced Directive says that he doesn't recall any discussion of the law being applied to a brain-dead person.

  8. #828
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    Good grief. 82 pages of "She's not dead!" and "Yes she is!"

    I see only 21 pages; 828 posts at 40 posts per page. It's a bit easier to keep track of conversations this way.

  9. #829
    Ho, ho, ho.
    Superfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East Coast
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    21,612

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I see only 21 pages; 828 posts at 40 posts per page. It's a bit easier to keep track of conversations this way.
    I think mine is set for 8 threads per page, or maybe 10. Besides. It packs more of a punch when I complain about 82 pages as opposed to your 21 pages.

  10. #830
    Sage



    Join Date
    May 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,247

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Sweet Jesus. I know she is dead. Try reading what someone is saying. In obstetrics, there are two patients. The life sustaining treatment is keeping the fetus alive.

    Why do you think the law exists in the first place - because they view the fetus as patient.
    But the law is about applying life sustaining treatment to the pregnant woman.

    Until born, there is one patient. Are you saying that the hospital will list two patients before birth?

Page 83 of 87 FirstFirst ... 33738182838485 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •