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Thread: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Im pointing out how flawed your analogy is. Either you believe both or you don't. They're not different. Either the government has control of your body in death or they don't.
    Is that how the world works in your brain? Everything is black and white? Either the government owns 100% of your dead body, and can do anything they want with it, like dressing you up and using you as a puppet, OR, never under any circumstances whatsoever?

    The facts are simple. A human child's life hangs in the balance right now because his life support source happened to die. A living woman couldn't have an abortion in Texas at 20 weeks, so why should a dead one be able to?

    And no, you still didn't answer my question, and I suspect it's because you realized "Of course we shouldn't remove the body, exploding the bomb and killing other people." It's like one of two conjoined twins dying. You'd rather whine and cry about the rights of the dead twin instead of recognizing the other twin has been dependent on those same organs for his entire life as well.

    I mean ****, look at yourself, you're arguing that we should kill another human being. Maybe one day you'll recognize the world isn't crystal clear black and white, but rather a magnificent shade of grey.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Is that how the world works in your brain? Everything is black and white? Either the government owns 100% of your dead body, and can do anything they want with it, like dressing you up and using you as a puppet, OR, never under any circumstances whatsoever?

    The facts are simple. A human child's life hangs in the balance right now because his life support source happened to die. A living woman couldn't have an abortion in Texas at 20 weeks, so why should a dead one be able to?

    And no, you still didn't answer my question, and I suspect it's because you realized "Of course we shouldn't remove the body, exploding the bomb and killing other people." It's like one of two conjoined twins dying. You'd rather whine and cry about the rights of the dead twin instead of recognizing the other twin has been dependent on those same organs for his entire life as well.

    I mean ****, look at yourself, you're arguing that we should kill another human being. Maybe one day you'll recognize the world isn't crystal clear black and white, but rather a magnificent shade of grey.
    I'm not confused on medical ethics. My counter question showed that while we may be tempted to leave the dead body on the bomb, we also would place a dead body on the bomb to save more lives. Just like we may be tempted to save someone's life by taking organs from someone who gave no consent to do so.

    It's something you can't do even if the ends justify the means. So I fully understand the greyness of the situation. You miss it entirely.

    Plus, this is not an abortion. No active medical intervention is required.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    I'm not confused on medical ethics. My counter question showed that while we may be tempted to leave the dead body on the bomb, we also would place a dead body on the bomb to save more lives. Just like we may be tempted to save someone's life by taking organs from someone who gave no consent to do so.

    It's something you can't do even if the ends justify the means. So I fully understand the greyness of the situation. You miss it entirely.

    Plus, this is not an abortion. No active medical intervention is required.
    No body parts have been taken to keep this child alive. The mother grew this child out of her own will, GIVING her life support to the child. If there were a way to separate the baby from the dead mother, it would be done, but there isn't. Killing another life by indian giving solves nothing, and is not in any way akin to extracting organs and giving it to strangers.

    The mother will be brought to the graveyard with all vital organs intact and present when a living human being stops living inside her. And if this isn't an abortion, it's not an organ donation either, so your point on that is also moot. Which means it's a unique and uncommon situation where those who make decisions decided to protect life instead of destroying it.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 01-19-14 at 12:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    I'm afraid taking a dead person off life support and letting nature take its course is not killing. This is different from abortion because it takes active intervention to abort as it does to keep a dead body's heart beating.
    No, turning off life support won't kill the dead lady, she's already dead.

    Turning off life support is a pretty active intervention from the perspective of the kid without enough surfactant in his or her lungs to survive outside yet.

    She never took on any responsibility to be used as an incubator in death, and made expressed desire in how she would be treated in death.
    Maybe she did maybe she didn't; no documentation to this effect, and even if there were, a DNR has no effect for the duration of pregnancy... and for good reason.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Ok, regardless of who much those of you referring to the unborn child as "it" (making it abundantly clear that you have dismissed other human's lives as less important than your own) would like to kill this kid, the decision is based on medical protocol. If a patient is able to make rational decisions of course we defer to their decisions within the law. In the event that the patient is unresponsive we operate under "implied consent" meaning opting for appropriate treatment that would be in line with what the patient would decide if they could. For instance if I come up on a car accident and the driver is unresponsive and bleeding from the head they would likely want me to treat them for that injury. In this case the woman carried the child past the point of legal abortion, so it would be assumed she intended to deliver the child. For those of you who would prefer this child could be a notch on the the liberal abortion totem, I suggest you go out and have sex (preferably with a stranger or someone else's partner in order to feed your need to be progressive), get pregnant, and kill "it". Perhaps that will appease your blood lust for a while.

    Too much? Well, I keep hearing how the government should stay out of other people's bedrooms, perhaps you might stay out of hers.
    Last edited by tech30528; 01-19-14 at 12:53 PM.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Is what the father wants what the mother would have wanted? Since we don't know, then it is only right to keep the mother viable to deliver her baby.
    The husband has to decide that. Marriage has benefits and responsibilities. Healthcare decisions are one such responsibility.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    The husband has to decide that. Marriage has benefits and responsibilities. Healthcare decisions are one such responsibility.
    In America, women are not property.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    In America, women are not property.
    Wow, you come back with that as a response? Women are also not the subject of eminent domain for the state to take over.In America, spouses get to decide what to do with the remains of their departed spouses. This poor woman is dead and it falls upon the husband to make the decisions for the remains. Just as in California it is to the parents of a brain-dead child to decide such matters.

    I care about the rights to make a decision, I can only presume that you care about which decision they make regardless of the authority to do so.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    In America, women are not property.
    They are when they're dead. The same goes the other way around for men too.
    Trump Attacked A Syrian Airfield. Trump will be a one-term president.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Incorrect. Her body was already on life support when she died, which is subsequently providing life support for the human child....
    ...
    Incorrect the had no pause and had been without Oxygen for an extended time. They shocked the woman and gave drugs which restarted her heart and even though she was brain dead they could detect a fetal heartbeat so they put the woman on life support.

    The fetus may have also died and be brain dead also for all we know.
    The fetus also recieved the shock and the meds that were used to restart the woman's heart and they may have restarted the heart of the fetus also.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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