Page 48 of 87 FirstFirst ... 38464748495058 ... LastLast
Results 471 to 480 of 863

Thread: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

  1. #471
    Guru
    Ben K.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,717

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Incorrect. Her body was already on life support when she died, which is subsequently providing life support for the human child. To come in and remove her body from that life support would kill the child, thus causing more harm.

    It's a terrible, horrible tragedy that this woman died, but we don't need to raise the body count. She's dead, and she had given her organs to her unborn child. It'd be kind of like wanting the organs back from someone after you already died and donated them. And it's not for the greater good, it's so that her child can continue living.
    And organ harvesting is done to keep people living. The CF patient or the liver cirrhosis patient, why is this child's life worth more?

    And no, it's nothing like giving away your organs and taking them back. It's having expressed wishes with how your body should be dealt with in death. There was no renege.

    It's sad I agree. I find it incredibly upsetting when people refuse to donate their organs too.

  2. #472
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,574

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    And organ harvesting is done to keep people living. The CF patient or the liver cirrhosis patient, why is this child's life worth more?

    And no, it's nothing like giving away your organs and taking them back. It's having expressed wishes with how your body should be dealt with in death. There was no renege.

    It's sad I agree. I find it incredibly upsetting when people refuse to donate their organs too.
    There's a pretty major difference between this situation and normal organ donation though. Imagine this situation (it's abstract, but you should get the point): A person falls dead and lands on a dead man's switch to a bomb. If the body is lifted, it will detonate the bomb and kill more human beings. Should this body be removed IMMEDIATELY, with no regard for other human lives, because that person wanted to be buried immediately, or should we maybe consider that granting her wishes will kill other people, and should wait until the other people can be brought to safety, THEN grant her wishes?

    Her body was already keeping someone else alive when she died, it wasn't like she died, then her organs got harvested to save lives.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  3. #473
    Guru
    Ben K.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,717

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    There's a pretty major difference between this situation and normal organ donation though. Imagine this situation (it's abstract, but you should get the point): A person falls dead and lands on a dead man's switch to a bomb. If the body is lifted, it will detonate the bomb and kill more human beings. Should this body be removed IMMEDIATELY, with no regard for other human lives, because that person wanted to be buried immediately, or should we maybe consider that granting her wishes will kill other people, and should wait until the other people can be brought to safety, THEN grant her wishes?

    Her body was already keeping someone else alive when she died, it wasn't like she died, then her organs got harvested to save lives.
    Working with that analogy, should an already dead body be used to cover the bomb?

  4. #474
    Guru
    scatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    02-09-17 @ 10:57 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,721

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by year2late View Post
    Why would she believe that keeping a dead patient on life support was an option?
    Because that is the law.

  5. #475
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,574

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Working with that analogy, should an already dead body be used to cover the bomb?
    Considering you didn't answer the question based on my analogy, I don't particularly feel the need to answer yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  6. #476
    Struggler
    JayDubya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    17,181

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Let's say she was planning to abort the fetus? What changes?
    Then an evil plan was thwarted. Hooray.

    Of course, we have no reason to think such awful things about the deceased, so your speculations may as well include the fantastic - let's say the fetus isn't a human but a unicorn, what changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    So if I understand correctly, people who believe this woman should be kept on life support also believe a dead persons organs should be harvested regardless of consent? I'm not sure what the ethical difference would be in regards personal autonomy Vs. the greater good.
    No, no one should be forced to be an organ donor.

    I don't see how this relates at all. I know this is a common comparison people make with regards to abortion, and now this much rarer, somewhat related topic, but it really isn't the same thing and it doesn't really relate.

    She may well still be able to have her organs donated at the end of this if that is what she wanted, or whatever else she wished to have done with her remains. Her brain is dead, so there is nothing more that can be done for her. The treatment being given is for the kid. It is appropriate to honor the wishes of the deceased... once she is removed from the life support. She should be removed from the life support as soon as possible, which is when that act will not needlessly kill someone else.

    Your body is your property and one may bequeath that property on death, or not. You don't have to give your organs to anyone.

    Among other things, what I think you are comparing is the act of not giving someone something and the act of deliberately killing them. And no, I don't think those are equivalent, even when the other will die without that thing you might be able to give them.

    You are comparing random stranger with bad kidneys to a kid you created and are obliged to provide for, as well, only in the latter case you are quite literally only talking about the passive provision of oxygen and nutrition.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 01-19-14 at 09:55 AM.

  7. #477
    Sage



    Join Date
    May 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,266

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    Because that is the law.
    The law states keep a dead person on "life" support? Can you show me?

    Patients receiving medical care are alive. I am curious, who is listed as the patient?

    Again, it is disgusting that the wishes of the patient and family are not respected. I cannot imagine the agony of the family.

    I have to wonder who is footing the bill? Surely the insurance company would draw the line with death. If the hospital "writes it off" it hurts the other consumers. If the taxpayer is footing the bill - the taxpayers suffer - or the people who are living on the edge and have a needed program cut because of a million dollar hospital bill for unwanted care of a dead person.

    It is funny that an abortion would be legal at 14 weeks, but because the patient is dead she lacks any rights and her family lack any rights when it comes to the fetus.

    I pray the baby is born healthy. But with the crisis the mother went through and the likely major prolonged hypoxic insult to their bodies, I would be doubtful. I don't have access to her records, so I just have no clue what really transpired and for how long. You cannot compare this case to a patient that perhaps had a major brain incident, but was never deprived of oxygen for a prolonged period or never had major cardiovascular collapse.

  8. #478
    Guru
    scatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    02-09-17 @ 10:57 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,721

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Again, that is the law. Also, it is from 1989. She is not big on medical law, and does not know how to read the law.

  9. #479
    Guru
    Ben K.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,717

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Considering you didn't answer the question based on my analogy, I don't particularly feel the need to answer yours.
    Im pointing out how flawed your analogy is. Either you believe both or you don't. They're not different. Either the government has control of your body in death or they don't.

  10. #480
    Guru
    Ben K.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,717

    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Then an evil plan was thwarted. Hooray.

    Of course, we have no reason to think such awful things about the deceased, so your speculations may as well include the fantastic - let's say the fetus isn't a human but a unicorn, what changes?



    No, no one should be forced to be an organ donor.

    I don't see how this relates at all. I know this is a common comparison people make with regards to abortion, and now this much rarer, somewhat related topic, but it really isn't the same thing and it doesn't really relate.

    She may well still be able to have her organs donated at the end of this if that is what she wanted, or whatever else she wished to have done with her remains. Her brain is dead, so there is nothing more that can be done for her. The treatment being given is for the kid. It is appropriate to honor the wishes of the deceased... once she is removed from the life support. She should be removed from the life support as soon as possible, which is when that act will not needlessly kill someone else.

    Your body is your property and one may bequeath that property on death, or not. You don't have to give your organs to anyone.

    Among other things, what I think you are comparing is the act of not giving someone something and the act of deliberately killing them. And no, I don't think those are equivalent, even when the other will die without that thing you might be able to give them.

    You are comparing random stranger with bad kidneys to a kid you created and are obliged to provide for, as well, only in the latter case you are quite literally only talking about the passive provision of oxygen and nutrition.
    I'm afraid taking a dead person off life support and letting nature take its course is not killing. This is different from abortion because it takes active intervention to abort as it does to keep a dead body's heart beating.

    She never took on any responsibility to be used as an incubator in death, and made expressed desire in how she would be treated in death.

    The government taking control of your body is wrong in all cases.

Page 48 of 87 FirstFirst ... 38464748495058 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •