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Thread: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Yes, Mrs. Munoz is dead. No one disputes that. Brain death is death. Her brain is dead, which means she is dead. However, you can in fact keep that corpse's other organs alive for a very, very long time... in a tiny fraction of that potential time, the kid will be able to be saved.
    You can slow the process of decomposition but you cannot delay it indefinitely. The body is likely showing signs of decomposition already. No one has ever attempted to bring a fetus to term and deliver it from a months old cadaver nor should such a disgusting medical experiment be allowed.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    You can slow the process of decomposition but you cannot delay it indefinitely.
    Uhhh, sort of. In fact, you can be on these sorts of system for decades. You will still age and the systems will eventually fail.

    The body is likely showing signs of decomposition already.
    Nope. Don't be ridiculous.

    No one has ever attempted to bring a fetus to term and deliver it from a months old cadaver nor should such a disgusting medical experiment be allowed.
    "Months old cadaver" is misrepresenting the situation a bit. Yes, Mrs. Munoz is brain dead. Her body is not going to breathe on its own, the ventilator is doing that. She isn't going to eat or drink anything on her own - there's workarounds for that too. Without brainstem function, blood pressure won't be regulated... again... workarounds.

    This isn't a "disgusting medical experiment." I don't know where you get this crazy notion.

    In Michigan a woman named Christine Bolden suffered an aneurysm while pregnant with twins and was declared braindead. They kept her on a ventilator for quite some time. Twins were delivered healthy via C-section. That's hardly the only case, even, that's just recent enough I can find it via a quick Google.

    Granted in that case the family members weren't acting crazy and selfish...

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Uhhh, sort of. In fact, you can be on these sorts of system for decades. You will still age and the systems will eventually fail. Nope. Don't be ridiculous. "Months old cadaver" is misrepresenting the situation a bit. Yes, Mrs. Munoz is brain dead. Her body is not going to breathe on its own, the ventilator is doing that.
    I don't think you have a good understanding of medicine. The body WILL decompose whether it is hooked up to machines or not just as it was/is in the case of Jahi McMath. The machines may slow down the process, but certainly not by decades. And referring to the body as a months old cadaver is not a misrepresentation at all. This woman has been dead for two months.
    Last edited by Napoleon; 01-18-14 at 08:37 PM.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Wow, nothing good in this story. If a healthy woman has a right to choose, then since a brain dead woman cannot make that decision, then I would prefer to go with the wishes of the husband over the wishes of the state--regardless of what the husband chooses.
    Is what the father wants what the mother would have wanted? Since we don't know, then it is only right to keep the mother viable to deliver her baby.
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Is what the father wants what the mother would have wanted? Since we don't know, then it is only right to keep the mother viable to deliver her baby.
    Except that the mother is not viable. She has been dead for two months.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Except that the mother is not viable. She has been dead for two months.
    So, was the mother planning to abort the fetus? If so, then you might have an argument. But you don't.
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    I don't think you have a good understanding of medicine.
    What a coincidence, I'm kind of getting that feeling about you.

    The body WILL decompose whether it is hooked up to machines or not just as it was/is in the case of Jahi McMath. The machines may slow down the process, but certainly not by decades.
    Yes, the condition of the body and its remaining living tissues will degrade. Did I say otherwise? The dead brain, for example, that's going to decompose immediately. No stopping that.

    When you say "it will slow down the process," well, good enough, no one here was of the opinion that we could or even should stop the process, just delay it.

    The kid doesn't need all that much more time. You may be right about the decades thing, I may have the wires of the ol' memory bank crossed with folks merely in a coma or PVS on a ventilator... but the point is you can do a lot with vasoactive drugs and a ventilator to keep a body physiologically working and in this case you medically absolutely should, because there is still a patient you can save.

    Again, I remind you of the twins in Michigan and your insistance that this has somehow never happened and could never turn out well. In both cases, quite incorrect.

    And referring to the body as a months old cadaver is not a misrepresentation at all. This woman has been dead for two months.
    Yes, the organism that was Mrs. Munoz is dead, because her brain was deprived of oxygen and it died. I'm not arguing with you on this point. Brain death is death.

    However, most of the cells and tissues and organs that were part of her body aren't dead yet, courtesy of the life support. As a result, her kid is still getting nutrition and oxygen right now. If the rest of Mrs. Munoz's body was dead, then there would be no point to any of this care, as the kid would now be dead. Do you see the flaw yet in what you are saying?
    Last edited by JayDubya; 01-18-14 at 09:32 PM.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Is what the father wants what the mother would have wanted? Since we don't know, then it is only right to keep the mother viable to deliver her baby.
    What the mother would have wanted is irrelevant. The husband is next of kin and he wants this game to come to an end. Even if he weren't, the mother's parents are next of kin after him and they also want this charade ended. What's keeping her alive is the law. I haven't seen that information sourced but I'm giving folks the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't make this scenario any less of a farce just it's legal.

    People keep saying "what would the mother want", her speculative wishes are completely irrelevant.
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    This isn't a game.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    So, was the mother planning to abort the fetus? If so, then you might have an argument. But you don't.
    /basement like.

    This should actually be the end of the thread, but I'm sure it won't.

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