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Thread: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

  1. #291
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    With all due respect, this matter is about principles to you… to you, this is about nothing but supporting life, not about concern for the baby's health. Expectant parents have more reason to be concerned for that baby than you could possibly grasp, because it's not your unborn baby. If he has fear, it is a valid, reasonable and very real fear for him. He should be concerned for the health of the baby. If you were in this situation, and didn't care, inquire, and lacked concern for the baby's health, I would honestly be worried about you ability to grasp the severity of the issue.
    What has demonstrated to you any concern the father might have for the kid's health? Was it the constant efforts to ensure the kid dies? How do those grab you?

  2. #292
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    The case, as we know it at this point, would indicate your comments are nonsense under the circumstances.
    My comments are not nonsense… and I have told you before that I am not a liberal hack, which you constantly accuse me of being, just like you warned me to not Christian bash you.

    I agreed with what the pope said, btw. I have said before, I respect life and I respect women. I am personally pro life, and I personally am opposed to life support and yanking the plug and killing somebody. This guy is going to have to end life support to his wife eventually, and you are totally and utterly incapable of having empathy or understanding for that.

    If you're pro life, how could you feel comfortable pulling the plug on a family member when you could have opposed it? It seems you would refuse life support in the first place or you would never pull the plug. Never pulling the plug would go against her wishes. That should be respected. If the baby died along with her, that would be a natural death. If you and your wife want life support while pregnant and you want to be in charge of killing her after your baby arrives, then make that decision yourself.

  3. #293
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    What has demonstrated to you any concern the father might have for the kid's health? Was it the constant efforts to ensure the kid dies? How do those grab you?


    I don't think he wants his baby to die. I think he wants to honor his promise to his wife. As I keep saying, somebody is going to eventually be responsible for pulling that plug. Some people don't want to be in that place or position, and are morally and ethically opposed to life support and pulling plugs.

  4. #294
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Call me crazy, but since she wanted the baby while she was alive it should be the default assumption that she would want the baby to live even when she's dead.
    Though maybe not in cases like this. I want to live, but if I won't recover I don't want to be kept alive. But wouldn't the default assumption be that I want to live?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post


    I don't think he wants his baby to die. I think he wants to honor his promise to his wife. As I keep saying, somebody is going to eventually be responsible for pulling that plug. Some people don't want to be in that place or position, and are morally and ethically opposed to life support and pulling plugs.
    Well, and when the kid lives he'd obviously be stripped of his parental rights. Which is exactly how a small government doesn't intrude on people's lives.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  6. #296
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Well, and when the kid lives he'd obviously be stripped of his parental rights. Which is exactly how a small government doesn't intrude on people's lives.
    How will he be stripped of parental rights?

  7. #297
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    My comments are not nonsense… and I have told you before that I am not a liberal hack, which you constantly accuse me of being, just like you warned me to not Christian bash you.

    I agreed with what the pope said, btw. I have said before, I respect life and I respect women. I am personally pro life, and I personally am opposed to life support and yanking the plug and killing somebody. This guy is going to have to end life support to his wife eventually, and you are totally and utterly incapable of having empathy or understanding for that.

    If you're pro life, how could you feel comfortable pulling the plug on a family member when you could have opposed it? It seems you would refuse life support in the first place or you would never pull the plug. Never pulling the plug would go against her wishes. That should be respected. If the baby died along with her, that would be a natural death. If you and your wife want life support while pregnant and you want to be in charge of killing her after your baby arrives, then make that decision yourself.
    Sorry, that wasn't my point. I was simply referring to the facts, as JayDubya pointed out, that there was no written directive/order from the wife/mother in place, simply the "say so" of the husband and secondly, according to Texas law, even if there was a written directive, it has no force in law if there's a pregnancy involved. So what the husband is feeling or wants at the time is simply irrelevant emotion, likely driven by grief, but the law requires that the developing child be saved, if possible.

    You can repeat as much as you want what you presume to be "her wishes", but there's nothing to verify what the husband is saying. And based on the fact that both the wife and husband were/are EMS professionals, knowing hospital procedures, if it was something they felt strongly about they would have it in writing.

    We can argue, the pros and cons of the state law, but emotions, religion, wishes, etc. are all irrelevant nonsense at this point.

    For what it's worth, I'm a strong proponent of such "end of life" directives and I also strongly support "assisted suicide" or whatever name they give it these days. But these are all issues related to an individual choosing their own path - those decisions should not impose a death sentence on another human being even if that other human being is only in the early stages of development.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  8. #298
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Why don't we just have Silvia Browne ask the woman's soul what she wants to do?

    And then, in the future, we can use micro-robotics to send a tiny iPad into the womb so the fetus can communicate its wishes in case of something like this happening. Then it can decide whether or not it would want to spend 22 weeks gestating inside of a dead woman so that it can be born severely disabled. These absurd proposals are solutions to equally absurd questions, however rhetorical, found all over this thread.

    I remember the Terri Schiavo case and I hope everybody else does too. We had Republicans around the country saying "just wait for the autopsy, it will prove that she was still a person with a functioning brain who was capable of communicating!" The truth was much more depressing. This child will suffer his or her entire life from a terrible disability. The state has no right to force a person to bring such a child into this world under these circumstances. There should certainly be a lawsuit that seeks to give spouses the right to abort a child in cases like this, at least if the pregnancy is early enough (I would say anything under 28 weeks).
    Last edited by Mustachio; 01-16-14 at 02:40 PM.
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  9. #299
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Though maybe not in cases like this. I want to live, but if I won't recover I don't want to be kept alive. But wouldn't the default assumption be that I want to live?
    Faulty comparison. The more accurate comparison would be "Do I want my child to die if I die?". The default assumption would be that a parent wants their child to continue living after they die.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  10. #300
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    It makes perfect sense to keep a brain dead woman alive to save the life of the child. Why have 2 people die instead of just one?
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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