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Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

She is not being resuscitated. SHE IS DEAD!!

What do you not get about dead?
Exactly.

I agree the woman is dead and therefore she should not be hooked up to the ventilator against her husbands and her parents wishes.

According to the article linked in post #523 the law refers to pregnant women who are comatose or in a vegetative state.

SHE is DEAD....not comatose and not in a vegetative state.
 
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Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Forgive my ignorance but if DNR stands for Do Not Resuscitate, wouldn't one have to be legally dead in order for resuscitation to be appropriate, for a DNR to then be relevant? I mean, I see some folks making a stink about "she's dead" and I can't help but think "well dumbass you have to be in a coma or dead for a DNR to apply, and this lady is not in a coma, so thanks for stating the obvious I guess".

It's like people don't know what the word "resuscitate" actually means.

And on top of it, she's NOT legally dead, she's brain dead. She won't be legally dead until a physician pronounces her dead. Until that point, she's legally alive. If she had a living will for organ/tissue donation it would be in-force at this moment because she's still legally alive.

Actually, good questions.


There is a difference between losing a pulse (for example) and being DECLARED dead. She (from what the reports have said)has been declared dead. Resuscitative efforts are stopped.

So what they are doing is mechanically ventilating and feeding a corpse.

Brain dead is legally dead. The time of death is the time of legally declaring brain death.

So if a person is declared brain dead at 6 AM and kept on mechanical ventilation for harvesting organs until 3pm, the time of death will be 6 AM, not the time when they pull out the heart and take her off the ventilator. DOes that make sense.

But yes, brain death is legal death.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Brain dead is not legally dead. Her pulse and respiration have to stop, and then a doc can pronounce her dead, and then she's legally dead.

Actually it is.

This was posted here or another thread from the Uniform Determination of Death Act

Determination of Death. An individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem, is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards
.

I hope this helps.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

If this this were The Loft, you would be correct, but it's not. No such in-depth discussions are expected or required in the open forum. Never have been, never will.

so you agree her statement is not honest and has no merit, got it, i agree also :)
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Brain dead is not legally dead. Her pulse and respiration have to stop, and then a doc can pronounce her dead, and then she's legally dead.

Id be surprised if she doesn't have a death certificate. Most nations issue one in the case of brain death, shocked if Texas is different.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Forgive my ignorance but if DNR stands for Do Not Resuscitate, wouldn't one have to be legally dead in order for resuscitation to be appropriate, for a DNR to then be relevant? I mean, I see some folks making a stink about "she's dead" and I can't help but think "well dumbass you have to be in a coma or dead for a DNR to apply, and this lady is not in a coma, so thanks for stating the obvious I guess".

It's like people don't know what the word "resuscitate" actually means.

And on top of it, she's NOT legally dead, she's brain dead. She won't be legally dead until a physician pronounces her dead. Until that point, she's legally alive. If she had a living will for organ/tissue donation it would be in-force at this moment because she's still legally alive.

She was pronounced dead in November. She is in fact...legally dead.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

so you agree her statement is not honest and has no merit, got it, i agree also :)
I don't even know what her statement was, I just think expecting in-depth discussions is unreasonable in the open forum.

The open forum is the home of the sound-bite argument with a link or two to back it up. If you want a research paper quality argument then you need to go to the True Debate forum or The Loft forum.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

I don't even know what her statement was, I just think expecting in-depth discussions is unreasonable in the open forum.

The open forum is the home of the sound-bite argument with a link or two to back it up. If you want a research paper quality argument then you need to go to the True Debate forum or The Loft forum.

not what i want at all lol

and sound bite with links would be great but it was even that it was completely worthless :)
 
An occasional link to back up a statement perhaps with a quote from inside the link should be "do-able" without even coming near "true debate"status.
 
Do I understand correctly? Outside of the loft actual debate is frowned upon?

That explains a lot.
 
After sifting through HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE CHAPTER 166. ADVANCE DIRECTIVES, I'm inclined to remain supportive of the hospital's actions.
  • No, that doesn't mean I'm a radical pro-lifer trying to get an edge in the law.
  • No, that doesn't mean I oppose the family's right to remove treatment from a brain-dead family member.
My position is quite heartless, imo. I think the hospital was acting in good faith and following it's best understanding of the law.A hospital fears lawsuits everywhere it turns, and for good reason. Either remove life support from a "patient" and face civil and criminal charges for Fetal Homicide, or sustain life-support for a non-"patient" and eat the bill when a court says that was the wrong move, & possibly pay a small amount to the family as settlement so they don't sue.

I would choose eating the bill over criminal charges every day of the week.

Whatever the court decides, they had better hurry up, because in just over 3 weeks the fetus will be "viable" and terminating life-support would be an illegal abortion then.
 
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Do I understand correctly? Outside of the loft actual debate is frowned upon?

That explains a lot.
By the DP community, not necessarily the Mod team. You don't see anyone getting an infraction for using a well sourced argument, but you don't see anyone getting an infraction for failing to source an argument, either. I'm sure the DP Mods would like to moderate debate instead of fighting.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

not what i want at all lol

and sound bite with links would be great but it was even that it was completely worthless :)
What you said you wanted was..
...to show every single other state you mention doing the same thing and then discuss the characteristics of that case vs. this one,...
...that's not a sound byte. That's a research paper. Links to all relevant laws to many other states and exhaustive review of *confidential* real cases. Even getting that information is a crime and an infraction possibly earning a permanent ban from this forum.

That's unreasonable to expect.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

What you said you wanted was..

...that's not a sound byte. That's a research paper. Links to all relevant laws to many other states and exhaustive review of *confidential* real cases. Even getting that information is a crime and an infraction possibly earning a permanent ban from this forum.

That's unreasonable to expect.
LMAO nice try jerry, carry on
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

LMAO nice try jerry, carry on
You let me know if someone ever actually does all that research for you. It would take me hours to compose such a post, and we're not even battling for the black ribbon. No thank you.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

You let me know if someone ever actually does all that research for you. It would take me hours to compose such a post, and we're not even battling for the black ribbon. No thank you.

i will but i doubt it since it will just further prove them wrong :)
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

That's fair - but when the individual is incapable of expressing their views/decisions - in this case, the fetus - I'm prepared to let the medical community do what they feel is in the best interest of that individual and not those who appear to have interests other than those of the individual.

And at what point does this 'acceptance' end?

1 week after conception?

5 weeks after conception?

At what point does a husband - or the woman herself - lose the right to make these end of life decisions?

Pregnancy does not end your rights.

- They made all of these decisions without consent or consult when she was 14 weeks into the pregnancy. It was knee jerk. IF this happened when she was far enough along for the baby to live outside the womb then I would have supported Cesarean and picu.
 
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Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Except in 35 states.

pregnant women have no rights in 35 states?

links? facts?
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

pregnant women have no rights in 35 states?

links? facts?

OJ...you don't need no stinkin facts. When Scatt says something...it's true, no questions asked. Well, you can at least play like everything he says something it's true...it'll save you finger energy.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

Except in 35 states.

They can legislate whatever they want - doesn't mean I believe it ENDS your rights.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

They can legislate whatever they want - doesn't mean I believe it ENDS your rights.
We're not talking about what you believe. We're talking about what's real.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

They can legislate whatever they want - doesn't mean I believe it ENDS your rights.

"Rights" are completely made up and can be created and destroyed at anytime.
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

OJ...you don't need no stinkin facts. When Scatt says something...it's true, no questions asked. Well, you can at least play like everything he says something it's true...it'll save you finger energy.

that's no fun though

If a poster posts BS and or a topically meaningless response then they are going to have to back up their BS and or get a response that points out that meanignglessness
 
Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

"Rights" are completely made up and can be created and destroyed at anytime.

links facts to these 35 states that say pregnant women have no rights?
 
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