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Thread: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

  1. #281
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    The written word lasts forever. How is this child going to feel when he grows up and reads all of this - how his father and grandparents wanted him dead.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Again, if I starve you or suffocate you, so will you. Go nature? Woo.

    By your standard, hospitals ain't natural. Let all disease run its course, the strong will survive, or something like that. .
    I can only assume that Rocket88's new found love of natural processes means he now supports only natural termination of pregnancies through miscarriage or live birth.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    The written word lasts forever. How is this child going to feel when he grows up and reads all of this - how his father and grandparents wanted him dead.
    Truly awful, ain't it?

    Well, there's always the possibility the dad will come to his senses.

    If not, at least there's adoption.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    That is, in fact, the default assumption.
    By all rational people, anyway.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  5. #285
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Truly awful, ain't it?

    Well, there's always the possibility the dad will come to his senses.

    If not, at least there's adoption.
    At least for now, law trumps emotion. There is no directive, so Dad doesn't really have to come to his senses. The hospital did it for him.

  6. #286
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    I am not atheist, so spare me.

    The fact is, this women is hooked up on a life support system that she didn't want to be… and the husband will face the fact that she didn't want to be put on those machines, and he will have to pull the plug on her. And in terms of respecting life, this isn't an easy position. I personally and ethically hate abortion. I am personally pro life, and because of that, I would also have ethical issues with pulling the plug on another human being. I think it's wrong for the hospital to force this position on the husband and on her family.

    You fail to see the other side of the issue. You're more concerned with the empathy of the unborn baby only. You don't respect this man's ethics or have any empathy with the fact that he, and only he, has the power to let his wife die now, and him and his wife didn't want to be in this situation. The hospital overrode their ethical position on end of life. That is wrong. Maybe this guy actually has an issue with ending her life now, and being solely, legally, and personally responsible for pulling the plug. I would. You apparently don't comprehend or understand that.




    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Having empathy for a grieving husband takes a back seat in my world to medical efforts that could possibly save another life. Once the husband is holding his new born child in his arms and sees his dead wife's eyes or nose in the child, then we can talk about empathy and understanding the facts at that moment.

    Pope Francis is right about one thing - we've become a society that too readily views life as disposable. And before you get on your high horse and rail about religion, I'm not the slightest bit religious, so save it.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    The mother and father. Which is now impossible.

    Wow you really jumped onto all kinds of logical fallacies here.

    Who's going to take care of the fetus is a legitimate question. Seeing as how you're conservative I'm sure you're against the state doing so and so am I.
    Like I said, why wouldn't the father look after the child, if he/she survives?
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Personally, there is a difference between abortion and this. I think this is some frakenstein **** to be honest. I am not comfortable with a dead women's body being kept alive on machines to gestate no more than I am comfortable with growing test tube babies. The natural order is that her unborn baby would die with her.

    Now if she personally felt different, that would be different. If her and her husband wanted life support in this situation, that would be different… but he does not, and this is raising a lot of other ethical issues. I personally find the situation to be a little disturbing. And I also think that nothing is wrong with natural death. It's not traumatic, evil, or wrong. Doctors shouldn't go to extraordinary, degrading, or torturous methods of extending life or prolonging death, just for the sake of keeping somebody else alive.

    I ethically am opposed to extraordinary life saving measures that would just cause a person to live in pain and being in long term suffering until succumbing to the inevitable. When my grandmother was in Hospice, dying from cancer, our main concern was that she did not suffer, but we could have requested drastic life saving measures and treatment to just extend and prolong life. So when people start using these arguments that life should be prolonged under drastic measures, I disagree. Practicing medicine require respect for the patient and a promise to not degrade them in death.

    If you feel differently about suffering and prolonging life, then that choice should be yours and your families. It should not be made by the hospital and forced on you.


    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    It's his kid's medical expenses, and the hospital is not legally allowed to do anything but what they are doing.

    She's already dead, and turning off the ventilator needs to happen, yes... but in this case, that would also be a frivolous and needless loss of life for one of the two patients.

    Take the mom out of the hospital now and you'd just be suffocating and / or starving a helpless kid.


    P.S. I don't know to what extent this matters to the various people here, but apparently from local news affiliates (and yeah, this case is local for me), there was no DNR or any such document in place. Mr. Munoz is simply saying to hospital staff that he and Mrs. Munoz had talked about getting one.

    This situation now makes a bit more sense. You don't have that document in place, the hospital doesn't know. If the hospital doesn't know, they're going to bloody well intubate a 33 year old pregnant woman and assume she wants her life and her baby's life saved if at all possible.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    With all due respect, this matter is about principles to you… to you, this is about nothing but supporting life, not about concern for the baby's health. Expectant parents have more reason to be concerned for that baby than you could possibly grasp, because it's not your unborn baby. If he has fear, it is a valid, reasonable and very real fear for him. He should be concerned for the health of the baby. If you were in this situation, and didn't care, inquire, and lacked concern for the baby's health, I would honestly be worried about you ability to grasp the severity of the issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    "But the fetus still has a normal heartbeat.

    Munoz told ABC News that he knows his desire to end his wife's life support is unpopular with many people

    Family lawyers have said it will be difficult to convince a Texas judge to grant an injunction or restraining order to put the mother's wishes ahead of her child.

    Munoz said that although he and his wife had intended to sign a do-not-resuscitate order, or DNR forms, they had not done so before she fell ill.

    Texas law states this on pregnant patients: "A person may not withdraw or withhold life-sustaining treatment under this subchapter from a pregnant patient."

    And on DNR forms, under the Health and Safety Code, it reads, "I understand under Texas law this directive has no effect if I have been diagnosed as pregnant."

    Husband Wants Pregnant Wife Off Life Support - ABC News

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I am not atheist, so spare me.

    The fact is, this women is hooked up on a life support system that she didn't want to be… and the husband will face the fact that she didn't want to be put on those machines, and he will have to pull the plug on her. And in terms of respecting life, this isn't an easy position. I personally and ethically hate abortion. I am personally pro life, and because of that, I would also have ethical issues with pulling the plug on another human being. I think it's wrong for the hospital to force this position on the husband and on her family.

    You fail to see the other side of the issue. You're more concerned with the empathy of the unborn baby only. You don't respect this man's ethics or have any empathy with the fact that he, and only he, has the power to let his wife die now, and him and his wife didn't want to be in this situation. The hospital overrode their ethical position on end of life. That is wrong. Maybe this guy actually has an issue with ending her life now, and being solely, legally, and personally responsible for pulling the plug. I would. You apparently don't comprehend or understand that.
    The case, as we know it at this point, would indicate your comments are nonsense under the circumstances.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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