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Thread: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

  1. #231
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Depends on how you feel about privacy and government interference in our lives.
    Quite fond of the former but not the latter... though the relevance to this situation seems nil.

    When I think "government interference in our lives," I'm not usually thinking about the government not letting me kill my kid for shiggles.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Quite fond of the former but not the latter... though the relevance to this situation seems nil.

    When I think "government interference in our lives," I'm not usually thinking about the government not letting me kill my kid for shiggles.
    a) That's not what's happening here.

    b) What do you think is government interference if not laws dictating when a person should be on life support?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    a) That's not what's happening here.
    Yeah, it is. Kid's alive, dad for whatever reason doesn't care if his kid dies and wants the hospital to kill the kid, hospital isn't allowed to do so.

    That is what is happening here.

    What do you think is government interference if not laws dictating when a person should be on life support?
    In general terms, that's what we have DNRs for. There is no such document in this case, or hadn't you noticed that yet?

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Yeah, it is. Kid's alive, dad for whatever reason doesn't care if his kid dies and wants the hospital to kill the kid, hospital isn't allowed to do so.

    That is what is happening here.
    I'm sure he's getting his jollies off of it. Could be that he believes in natural law and letting people die when their time comes.



    In general terms, that's what we have DNRs for. There is no such document in this case, or hadn't you noticed that yet?
    So it's OK for government to swoop in and make decisions that are against the wishes of a person's family because it gives Republicans a warm fuzzy feeling to know that they "protected life?"


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  5. #235
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I'm sure he's getting his jollies off of it. Could be that he believes in natural law and letting people die when their time comes.
    The mom is dead, her time has come.

    The kid is not dead. Killing the kid doesn't serve any such law - it violates the rights of the kid.

    So it's OK for government to swoop in and make decisions that are against the wishes of a person's family because it gives Republicans a warm fuzzy feeling to know that they "protected life?"
    Again, your cynicism is unwelcome, unwarranted bull****.

    A hospital is obliged to assume you want life-saving care. There is a reason for this, believe it or not, because life saving care has to happen pretty quickly if it is even to have a chance at, you know, actually saving a life. And in this case, well, it has done so.

    If you have a DNR, in most cases the hospital is forbidden from providing life-saving care. There was no such DNR here, so intubation occurred and Mrs. Munoz is now on a ventilator in JPS. You have to specifically opt out and they have to know you have opted out. Whenever they don't know, a hospital has to try to save your life, because see last paragraph.

    In this circumstance, of course, there are two patients and one is incapable of having a DNR, which is why even if there had been one, it would not have been valid during a pregnancy. The kid can't make his or her wishes known. The kid can't opt out.

    That kid has a natural right to life, the same as any other human. There is no reason to kill him or her and no justification for that action. If you want to try and dismiss the act of respecting human rights a matter of "warm fuzzies," that's your prerogative, but it's still bull****.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 01-16-14 at 11:50 AM.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    The mom is dead, her time has come.

    The kid is not dead. Killing the kid doesn't serve any such law - it violates the rights of the kid.



    Again, your cynicism is unwelcome, unwarranted bull****.

    A hospital is obliged to assume you want life-saving care. If you have a DNR, it is forbidden from providing it. There was no such DNR here, so intubation occurred and Mrs. Munoz is now on a ventilator in JPS.

    In any event, there are two patients and one is incapable of having a DNR, which is why even if there had been one, it would not have been valid during a pregnancy.

    That kid has a natural right to life, the same as any other human. There is no reason to kill him or her and no justification for that action.
    So if there's no DNR, she should be kept alive forever? Or only until they're done using her as an incubator without her consent?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  7. #237
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    I'm not clear why there has to be a written directive. He is the husband and I've not seen anything that casts a doubt on that. If the wife is not able to make the decision and then that falls to the husband. I suppose if she had specifically addressed this situation in some kind of document that it could take precedent over the wishes of the husband.

    This is one of those marriage rights that so many people keep fighting over.
    My only disagreement here would be in the fact that there is a third life here that is being protected and supported. Actively killing a developing child in order to appease the wishes of a grieving husband seems a little beyond the "marriage rights" argument. It reminds me of when pharaohs died and a few live servants were buried with the deceased because the pharaohs didn't want to "travel" alone.

    There has to be more to this story than we know at this point. I don't understand at all a father and a grandmother not wanting to do everything possible to save the life of their developing child/grandchild.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    So if there's no DNR, she should be kept alive forever?
    No, she's dead. Brain death is death. She can't be "kept alive."

    There is no reason to have a nasogastric tube providing her body with food or a ventilator providing her organs with oxygen... save for the fact that her kid receives that nutrition and that oxygen.

    All treatment at this point is for the living patient. If Mrs. Munoz had not been pregnant or if the kid had died the ventilator would have been stopped long ago. None of the treatment occurring right now is for the sake of the dead patient; there would be no point.

    That treatment would have STILL been started, of course, because there was no DNR...

    Or only until they're done using her as an incubator without her consent?
    Please explain how a corpse can offer or not offer consent.

    She's dead. At this point you honor her wishes in life by removing her from the machines as soon as possible and by making sure her remains are disposed of how she would have liked, make sure that her property is bequeathed as she would have liked. That's about it. That's all you can do for her.

    Healthcare professionals are working to save the life of the other patient, however.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 01-16-14 at 12:02 PM.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Are all the people lobbying to keep the fetus alive also paying for the child's medical bills?

    Is there a family petitioning to keep this woman alive also willing to adopt the baby? Failing that are the people championing keeping this fetus alive also going to set up a fund to pay for life expenses until the fetus turns 18?
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    There has to be more to this story than we know at this point. I don't understand at all a father and a grandmother not wanting to do everything possible to save the life of their developing child/grandchild.
    So you're going to help raise the child and share in the expenses of raising the child?
    Trump Attacked A Syrian Airfield. Trump will be a one-term president.

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