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Thread: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

  1. #221
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by rjay View Post
    That would make no difference in this case.
    Well no, as I've already discovered and I've already told you...

    a) there is no DNR

    b) even if there was a DNR, a DNR is not valid in the event of pregnancy.


    This means the hospital has done and is doing exactly what they are supposed to do.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Weren't you just requesting a few posts ago that people keep their eye on the topic and not bring in irrelevant nonsense?
    You're right. My apologies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I appreciate that but abortion is not an issue here - for all we know at this point, the woman was pro-life - she was, after all, carrying a child at the time of her demise. As another stated, how does one know that she'd feel the same about life support if she had known she'd have been pregnant at the time of application. Do people who have end of life provisions really think about the possibility they'd be pregnant at the time?

    As I said before, I don't know a single woman who wouldn't do all she could to save the life of her child. I have no reason to believe she would want to do otherwise.
    Assuming she was against abortion because she was pregnant is an awfully big assumption.

    I don't think most people think about "What if I'm pregnant?" when they write these directives. Maybe she would feel differently, but that's another big assumption. It's possible, but we really don't know. We DO know that her directive was against using artificial life support, and we also know that her husband and parents want those wishes to be carried out. IMO, if everything from the patient says no, and her immediate family says no, the government shouldn't swoop in and contradict them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  4. #224
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    I don't recall seeing in the law that the husband was not permitted to move is wife to another facility--to another state.
    I don't recall that either, but I'm pretty certain if he tried, considering his actions and comments to date, the state would intervene and a court would stop him from moving her. At this stage, any attempt to end the life of the child by the family will result in the state taking custody of the child in whatever form that may take.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I don't think most people think about "What if I'm pregnant?" when they write these directives.
    Don't worry, there was no directive. So we do not even need to discuss directives anymore, she did not have one.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Well no, as I've already discovered and I've already told you...

    a) there is no DNR

    b) even if there was a DNR, a DNR is not valid in the event of pregnancy.


    This means the hospital has done and is doing exactly what they are supposed to do.
    They did follow the law. To quote Charles Dickens, "The law is an ass."

    For all the talk from conservatives about "big government" they don't seem to have a problem swooping in in this situation. This is about as "big" as government can get. This is the most personal of decisions. Yet you seem to have no problem with this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  7. #227
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Assuming she was against abortion because she was pregnant is an awfully big assumption.

    I don't think most people think about "What if I'm pregnant?" when they write these directives. Maybe she would feel differently, but that's another big assumption. It's possible, but we really don't know. We DO know that her directive was against using artificial life support, and we also know that her husband and parents want those wishes to be carried out. IMO, if everything from the patient says no, and her immediate family says no, the government shouldn't swoop in and contradict them.
    Here's what seems to be known and relevant in my view:

    1. As JayDubya has pointed out, there actually isn't a written directive in place, simply the husband claiming that they talked about it and what her views were.

    2. We know she was pregnant, and 14 weeks into the pregnancy when she died, so it's likely whatever her views on abortion or choice or anything else in the abstract, her views on her own pregnancy was positive - otherwise, she would have aborted the fetus before 14 weeks - at least that's my presumption.

    Those two points, in my view, strongly support protecting the interests of the developing child until such time as it appears a healthy birth/life is not possible.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  8. #228
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Here's what seems to be known and relevant in my view:

    1. As JayDubya has pointed out, there actually isn't a written directive in place, simply the husband claiming that they talked about it and what her views were.

    2. We know she was pregnant, and 14 weeks into the pregnancy when she died, so it's likely whatever her views on abortion or choice or anything else in the abstract, her views on her own pregnancy was positive - otherwise, she would have aborted the fetus before 14 weeks - at least that's my presumption.

    Those two points, in my view, strongly support protecting the interests of the developing child until such time as it appears a healthy birth/life is not possible.
    I'm not clear why there has to be a written directive. He is the husband and I've not seen anything that casts a doubt on that. If the wife is not able to make the decision and then that falls to the husband. I suppose if she had specifically addressed this situation in some kind of document that it could take precedent over the wishes of the husband.

    This is one of those marriage rights that so many people keep fighting over.

  9. #229
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    They did follow the law. To quote Charles Dickens, "The law is an ass."
    It can be. In this case, there is nothing wrong with the laws involved.

    There was no DNR, so you have to intubate and put the patient on a vent. Even if there was a DNR - and again, it has been established that there was not, for the duration of pregnancy, a DNR has no effect (which is plain within the document itself before you sign one).

    One patient died, but her kid is still alive, so the hospital is still providing care to the other patient in their care.

    It's reasonable.


    What strikes me as crazy is the doubtlessly grief-stricken dad who wants to kill his kid for no good reason.

    NOT listening to the totes cray cray dude who obviously doesn't have his kid's best interests at heart sounds like a really, really good idea.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 01-16-14 at 10:33 AM.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post

    NOT listening to the totes cray cray dude who obviously doesn't have his kid's best interests at heart sounds like a really, really good idea.
    Depends on how you feel about privacy and government interference in our lives. That's just me, I'd rather not have the government make health care decisions for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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