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Thread: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support[W:315]

  1. #211
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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    "But the fetus still has a normal heartbeat.

    Munoz told ABC News that he knows his desire to end his wife's life support is unpopular with many people

    Family lawyers have said it will be difficult to convince a Texas judge to grant an injunction or restraining order to put the mother's wishes ahead of her child.

    Munoz said that although he and his wife had intended to sign a do-not-resuscitate order, or DNR forms, they had not done so before she fell ill.

    Texas law states this on pregnant patients: "A person may not withdraw or withhold life-sustaining treatment under this subchapter from a pregnant patient."

    And on DNR forms, under the Health and Safety Code, it reads, "I understand under Texas law this directive has no effect if I have been diagnosed as pregnant."

    Husband Wants Pregnant Wife Off Life Support - ABC News

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Both Munozes are/were EMS's, and for all we know, with what they saw in their work, they talked about "pulling the plug." But neither of them had any idea that at such a young age, she was going to be struck down by an aneurysm.

    I'm probably not as familiar with this case as others posting here, but from what I have read, there is no way to know whether the baby has been catastrophically damaged because his/her mother was deprived of oxygen for an hour. If you don't know, why would you choose death rather than life (and hope)?

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    There is no safe way of knowing anything more at this time, correct.

    All that is known at this time is that the kid's ticker is going along just fine, and nothing "artificial" about that.

    I agree entirely NB - hope for the best, do your best to help the patient, if things don't turn out, at least you can say you gave it your all. That's what HCP are supposed to do. Absolutely nothing can be done at this point to help Mrs. Munoz - she's gone... but just giving up on the kid seems more than a little cruel.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    It's just such a sad, terrible situation. It does seem that Mr. Munoz and Marise Munoz's mother are adamant about disconnecting her even though the baby's life will be lost too, and it's difficult for me to understand. But I do understand deep grief, and one's judgment isn't always reliable during this time (which is why grief counselors always advise not to change jobs, move, or make other enormous life-decisions).

    I don't know what the odds are that this baby will be damaged or normal. Anybody have stats?

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    I don't recall seeing in the law that the husband was not permitted to move is wife to another facility--to another state.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    He doesn't want to kill his child. He wanted to honor his wife's wish everything using white support, but the hospital put her on life support anyway. For that he is suing. If the child is unhealthy, he should sue for that too.
    FACT: If the wife isn't on life support, the child dies.

    FACT: If the child is born with defects, it's the result of the wife's problems, not the hospital.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by rjay View Post
    So you would saddle the widower and his son with the medical expenses associated with keeping his dead wife on life-support, against her stated wishes. Not only that, but you decide that protecting himself and his son against this crippling debt is selfish.
    Yeah, usually I'd call a parent wanting to kill his kid for money pretty damn selfish... if that's even what is going on, but that's the tack you took with your response...

    Let's say that WAS the issue, just for the sake of argument - this is a highly unlikely and catastrophic event... it's what we supposedly get insurance for.

    Like I said, however, grief can make people irrational... which means he could come around to being reasonable. Here's hoping.

    A fourteen week old fetus went an hour without oxygen. If during a birth a baby goes without oxygen for 3 minutes the results can be severe.
    That's true, during birth.

    Please state your expertise on what the effects of the mom's condition will be on a kid of that age at the time of the incident, however...

    Part of neural development is that we can't make new neurons, which is why brain death is death.

    However, when one is still forming one's neurological system... I'll be honest, I don't know. I usually know, but I don't know this one. This isn't a frequent enough occurrence that I ever studied the implications back in school. Since I don't know, I'm holding out hope, though.


    Why do you hold these views? You fear that any empathy shown to the living loved ones of this poor women, may contradict your position on abortion. We are not talking about abortion. We are talking about letting a family grieve and get on with their lives by respecting the wishes of the deceased.
    Likewise, fine, okay. Perhaps you fear that any concern shown to the unborn kid will contradict your position on that other topic. It's okay, you don't have to want every kid to die...

    Or hey, maybe let's just look at this issue on its own merits, whaddayasay?
    Last edited by JayDubya; 01-16-14 at 08:52 AM.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Both Munozes are/were EMS's, and for all we know, with what they saw in their work, they talked about "pulling the plug." But neither of them had any idea that at such a young age, she was going to be struck down by an aneurysm.

    I'm probably not as familiar with this case as others posting here, but from what I have read, there is no way to know whether the baby has been catastrophically damaged because his/her mother was deprived of oxygen for an hour. If you don't know, why would you choose death rather than life (and hope)?
    Maybe it's easier not to saddle yourself with a special needs child. /sarcasm

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    So this is highly relevant for half the conversations in this thread.

    To recap:

    1) No DNR in place.

    2) Even if a DNR had been in place, by law, such a DNR would not be valid for the duration of a pregnancy, and that fact would be written plainly on the document.

    3) Hospital was obliged by law to intubate her and put her on a vent. Hospital is obliged by law to not turn off life support for the mom because the kid is still alive.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 01-16-14 at 08:50 AM.

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    Re: Texas Hospital keeping pregnant dead lady on life support

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    Terrible situation to be in.

    Going forward, all future individual DNR Directives should have two options..

    1. If it is known that i am pregnant, this document has no effect during the pregnancy.

    or

    2. If it is known that i am pregnant, this document remains in effect.

    Then there can be no doubt as to the individuals intentions.
    That would make no difference in this case. The law, as the hospital is choosing to interpret it, means regardless of any document and anyone's wishes, this dead person will remain on life-support until the government decides her remains are no longer needed.

    The law, as I read it, seems to apply to persons who are alive. The hospital's interpretation seems to expand the law to include dead people. Thus the challenge.
    Time flies like an arrow; fruitflies like a banana. - Groucho

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