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Thread: U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality [W:23]

  1. #121
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    Re: U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Quite a few people take Econ 101 and think it makes them experts on economic theory. We call those people "libertarians."

    It's akin to taking Physics 101 and believing yourself qualified to be an engineer.
    Ad hominem.

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    Re: U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    The irony here is that you BOTH seem to think that there is some place where people frolic hand in hand under rainbows while gum drops falling from the sky. Johnny 5 thinks we will get there regardless, you think corporations have locked the gates that lead there.

    Neither position is entirely accurate or entirely inaccurate. As someone who works in telecommunications the idea that the last ten years has been limited advancement is absurd, though. Telecommunications and computing have been shattering theoretical limits on computing very regularly. 15 years ago the internet was accessible to a fraction of the worlds population at the speed of 56kbps. Today it reaches almost every square inch of the world with the proper equipment that is getting cheaper by the day at speeds that are orders of magnitude faster than 56kbps.

    If this is restrained growth then I fear you will never be satisfied.
    I think that the market works best when its left alone. That govt sometimes makes things better is the exception, not the rule. But as you allude, thats an ideological argument. If you have faith in govt, then that justifies what they do. If you have faith in freedom and the individual, then that justifies what they do. Im in the latter camp. I dont trust govt to get nearly anything right.

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    Re: U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    So long as people are continuing to pay comcast millions of dollars, comcast will not change. Economics 101.
    Do you agree that monopolies or near-monopolies are detrimental to the function of the market?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Do you agree that monopolies or near-monopolies are detrimental to the function of the market?
    No, I think they are natural, temporary, and superficial. There are no real monopolies except maybe govt.

  5. #125
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    Re: U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Do you agree that monopolies or near-monopolies are detrimental to the function of the market?
    State created ones are, sure.

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    Re: U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    My question is, in all fairness, don't we the tax payer own the damn ISP's anyway? Aren't we the one's that paid for the damn cable and towers through massive subsidies?

    As far as I'm concerned open internet is WHAT is intrinsic about the internet. This ruling opens the door for a tremendous amount of corruption, and is purely antithetical to consumer protections.


    Tim-
    They own the backbone now and they are free to use their property as they see fit.

    Someone else can come in and lay cables and NOT censor to the wishes of the highest bidder.

    All they have to do is buy enough politicians away from their current owners, then find investors willing to accept less profit.

    THEN the consumers can decide which they prefer.

    Invisible hand and whatnot.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Sure you can. There are any number of ways around local blocking and if you don't like what your ISP is doing, you can find another ISP. There are plenty around. I'm not saying that they should do it, I'm saying that it is a service they offer and you, as a consumer, decide if you want to pay for the service as they offer it or not. There is no right whatsoever to have an internet connection.



    Where do you get the idea that you actually have a right to connect to the internet at all? It's a service. It's provided by companies. You either pay for that service or you do not. Now I agree with you, I'd much rather have a free and open internet but I don't pretend that I have a right to have it that way, or at all. I'm just being realistic. It's a free market. Let those who want to filter do so and I know who not to pay any money to.
    Isn't it blocked at the backbone though?

    Does a company get to buy bandwidth from a company that owns the wires and blocks and then not block themselves? Seems that wouldn't be allowed by the wire owner unless at a premium to offset money lost by blocking content for customers.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And people can frolic around hand in hand under a rainbow while gum drops fall from the sky.

    Look at your own post above. How long has there been "Demand" for something better than the ****ty, horrible, raping us in the ass cable company structures? Decades. And even now, there's been little significant "invention" of "something better" in large part because cable has such a devastating and complete hold Cable has on the situation.

    Oh, and shocker…some of the few inventions that actually have been made that, almost by accident, helped that problem? Things like Netflix, Hulu? Guess what they’re dependent on…oh right, the same internet that said cable providers control.

    You have first hand, indisputable, clear example of how that principle you just suggested DOESN’T WORK in the realm of the Telecoms under our current existing paradigm. And that’s in the modern day with the free and clear sharing of ideas and information leveraging the power of the internet; not a situation where said invention would need to be done in a boxed off walled garden that your telecom decides is the corner of the internet you need.
    For over forty years people have been demanding the ability to buy access to individual channels such as HBO without being forced to buy and pay for a package of channels that they don't want, yet somehow the marketplace has been unable to provide that option, despite markets with competition from multiple cable system operators, small dish service and internet access.

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    Re: U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Unless someone runs new lines, hence my original statement of "competing open infrastructure".
    Isn't the future in wireless? Why would anyone need to run more lines? Launch more satellites or build more towers maybe but aren't the days of needing transmission lines are running out?
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
    P. J. O'Rourke

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    Re: U.S. appeals court kills net neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    ....I stated that over the past 2 decades as people have been complaining about Cable Television and how it works that there's been limited actual significant advancement in creating worthwhile alternatives. ....
    There are small dish satellite services also (ie DISH network) and the entry of telcos in some markets (ATT)but they have not proven to be much of a challenge to cable in terms of programming choice, signal quality or price.

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