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Police:Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested[W:308

Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Old boy should not be killed for texting.
True, but I've wanted to give a few people a nasty right hook for having a phone with more lights than broadway right in my face for most of a movie.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

I'd prefer we work harder to stop the root cause of crime rather than arming everyone to try and stop the end result of their failure to properly integrate into society.

I've gone my entire life without carrying a gun to protect me, haven't needed one yet. I drive a vehicle daily, it is an integral part of U.S. society in most places. Driving is essential and extremely regulated.

If it is indeed so regulated why do so many die in cars? I don't carry a gun every day either but I do have them in the house and I don't think the whole public pays the severe price because of a few **** ups.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

While I reserve judgment until the case goes to court, it seems to me that this case is less ambiguous than the Zimmerman one (less room for reasonable doubt). FWIW, I suspect Zimmerman would have been convicted under a lesser charge e.g., assault or even manslaughter, than second degree murder.

In this case, news accounts suggest that there was an argument, but no use of physical force nor reasonable threat of a use of physical force. Furthermore, the victim's wife was keeping the two people apart. In addition, the victim had explicitly told the shooter that he had texted his young daughter. If these reports are accurate, this case appears to have been a use of excessive force with deadly results. Finally, while texting in a theater might be annoying to some people, there is no rational basis for the kind of confrontation that was provoked by the shooter. None.

Barring new details that are not publicly available, I believe odds lean in favor of a conviction, even as I reserve final judgment on the matter.

The biggest difference here is that there were dozens of witnesses. Not so with Zimmerman.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

FWIW, I suspect Zimmerman would have been convicted under a lesser charge e.g., assault or even manslaughter, than second degree murder.

Manslaughter was an option for the jury, Zimmerman was not convicted of that either.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

The biggest difference here is that there were dozens of witnesses. Not so with Zimmerman.

Well and the reason why they killed someone.

Zimmerman had plenty if evidence to show that he was at least in a physical altercation.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Well and the reason why they killed someone.

Zimmerman had plenty if evidence to show that he was at least in a physical altercation.

True.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

If it is indeed so regulated why do so many die in cars? I don't carry a gun every day either but I do have them in the house and I don't think the whole public pays the severe price because of a few **** ups.

Because physics. Humans aren't designed to travel at 70mph and collide with large mass objects. It is a logistics problem. Society is designed around people moving distances that are far greater than can be efficiently traveled by foot. We have no choice but to travel in vehicles. Do you have any idea how many people would splatter each day if it weren't for the regulations? Back in the day vehicles were designed as cheap as possible with little or no effort put into safety. A car running into a telephone pole at 30mph would turn into a crushed popcan and it is unlikely the driver would survive. Considering how many people travel each day many miles the number of deaths is actually quite low in comparison.

I'm not against people having guns in their homes to protect themselves. I do think if we got rid of all the guns it would be better overall. However this is politically impossible and pretty offensive to a large percentage of the population so I would never support such a thing.

The only point I was ever trying to make is that cc'ers are not always a good thing.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

And why the hell does this guy not need a concealed license? Retired law enforcement are just that: retired. They should follow the same laws we do.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Wait? So you are saying that a violent suspect has a history of unstable behavior? Like every other nut job?

I don't know if this individual has a history of unstable behavior, but this report suggests that he had recently begun to engage in what appears to be dysfunctional conduct. More about his past conduct will become known during the legal process, assuming he doesn't accept a plea bargain along the way.
 
Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

I don't know if this individual has a history of unstable behavior, but this report suggests that he had recently begun to engage in what appears to be dysfunctional conduct. More about his past conduct will become known during the legal process, assuming he doesn't accept a plea bargain along the way.

He is in some serious crap.

At his arraignment, he was refused bail, and the judge told him that SYG was not applicable.

Also seems there was documentation in his police file about anger issues some years ago.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

He is in some serious crap.

At his arraignment, he was refused bail, and the judge told him that SYG was not applicable.

Also seems there was documentation in his police file about anger issues some years ago.

Good. Maybe Florida is finally getting it's head out of it's ass.

Maybe.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Yes. Especially when you ignore and dismiss the other 14,999 incidents of gun violence per year (or is it 30k? Hard to keep up with the carnage stats).

Carry on folks. Nothing to see here.


Bah. The point was that those engaged in lawful carry are RARELY part of the problem... the vast majority of the incidents of which you speak involve drugs, gangs, or career criminals... not lawfully armed citizens.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Bah. The point was that those engaged in lawful carry are RARELY part of the problem... the vast majority of the incidents of which you speak involve drugs, gangs, or career criminals... not lawfully armed citizens.

Prove it. Lets see the numbers.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Prove it. Lets see the numbers.


I've already posted stats on CCW'ers, on this forum, several times. So has Jerry. Far lower incidence of being charged with violence than the general population.

Search it up if you want, I'm too busy to bother doing it again just now. Or don't, I could care less.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

I don't know if this individual has a history of unstable behavior, but this report suggests that he had recently begun to engage in what appears to be dysfunctional conduct. More about his past conduct will become known during the legal process, assuming he doesn't accept a plea bargain along the way.

Well this is 2 fold.

1) People who do this usually have a record. People don't start out at the tipping point.

2) It is possible that he is suffering from senility or another mental degradation.
 
Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Prove it. Lets see the numbers.

The question isn't can we produce it. It is will you accept it? You can easily find this on google. But I will explain it after I post it just so you cannot claim anything ridiculous:

http://www.freshfromflorida.com/content/download/7499/118851/cw_monthly.pdf

A) This is a MONTHLY report kept BY the state of Florida department of agriculture, who is responsible for the issuance of licenses, and so you cannot:
1)refute the "reliability" of this source. At least not rationally.
2)This record is kept up to date (monthly) and has been tracked since10/1/1987 to present. So it is not "out of date" either.
3)This source is directly relevant to disprove any claim that "concealed carriers" are generally unlawful, and it is to prove the opposite. Because the incident took place in Florida...the numbers are from Florida only.
4)The shooter mentioned in this thread is NOT a permit holder. He is retired law enforcement and subject to concealed laws under a federal law. Google that for yourself.

B) As for the numbers. Here they are listed and explained.
1)2,581,087 concealed licenses have been issued since 10/1/1987 for the State of Florida.
2)1,215,734 valid licenses currently. These licenses expire and must be renewed. Others choose to let them lapse.
C) Now. You may discuss "revocation." It isn't a majority case. Here are the numbers SINCE 1987:
1) 17,346 DENIED Applications because of:
I)Criminal History:5,753
II) Incomplete application: 11,593.

This means licenses were never issued for these 17K+

2) License Revocation: 8,153 (since 1987).
I)Clemency Or Legislative rule Change:66
II) Illegible prints: 11
III)Crime PRIOR to Licensure: 524
IV) Crime AFTER License: 7,430
V) Firearm utilized in Crime: 168
VI) Other: 22
3) Reinstated: 854.

Conclusion? Since 1987 Florida has only had 168 crimes committed with a firearm BY lawful concealed carry holders. More licenses have been reinstated than have used the gun in commission of a crime. And utilizing a firearm means that they had a gun to commit the crime. That does not imply fired it or murdered someone.

So. Now the real question. Will you accept that concealed carriers infrequently commit crimes? Especially ones using firearms? Or will you deny?
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

So. Now the real question. Will you accept that concealed carriers infrequently commit crimes? Especially ones using firearms? Or will you deny?

I actually have no doubt about this. Although I dont know how you can equate getting al license taken away by crime a whole accounting on crime.

I did a quick google search and found this random info about SC. I assume its representative of most areas:
ROBBERY

So there were 6000 robberies in the state - HALF using firearms. only about 2000 were 'cleared' - meaning an arrest was made. Thats less than a third.

But I'm sure its still a small number... because guys who get CC permits are following the law. People who dont obey the law and commit gun crimes dont tend to bother with permits.

But thats still totally irrelevant to my point, which is that tens of thousands of people die by firearms each year in the US. And many people just think thats the cost of the freedom they enjoy to own their toys/security blankets. I think its a crappy trade off.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

But thats still totally irrelevant to my point, which is that tens of thousands of people die by firearms each year in the US. And many people just think thats the cost of the freedom they enjoy to own their toys/security blankets. I think its a crappy trade off.

Remember, you say deaths because you want to deceive. 60% of the "deaths" are not murders, they are suicides.

Hundreds of thousands are used for protection. I know that is a great trade off.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Remember, you say deaths because you want to deceive. 60% of the "deaths" are not murders, they are suicides.

Hundreds of thousands are used for protection. I know that is a great trade off.

Well, suicides ARE deaths too.

But the 15k figure is homicides.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Well, suicides ARE deaths too.

But the 15k figure is homicides.

Suicides are the majority of gun deaths.

15k gun homicides? For what period of time over a year? Or is this non-recent data?
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Suicides are the majority of gun deaths.

15k gun homicides? For what period of time over a year? Or is this non-recent data?

It's per year. I'm surprised you're surprised.

Now go look up how many gun homicides the UK and Canada have.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Suicides are the majority of gun deaths.

15k gun homicides? For what period of time over a year? Or is this non-recent data?

I'll give you part of the answer. It's 42 in Great Britain.
 
Re: Police: Texting in movie theater sparks fatal shooting, retired officer arrested

Which year?

It has been fairly consistent for many years. It was 11,000 in 2010.

11,000 vs. 42
 
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