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Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer[W:173:381]

Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

ric27 said:
LE is really a behavior/based response service/provider. Sometimess the underlying reason for whacked out EDP, drugs, behavioral/cognitive issues can be managed with specialized training or with tactics....but most cannot


You need to realize is that in some situations, cops can't be concerned with, the ****ing whys, we just have to handle, the whats. Oftentimes that is completely dependent on the individual in question and no amount of comms may avoid a more intrusive *in your face* intervention.
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To me the man face clearly states who was wrong. No need for an unarmed man to have this happen.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

American said:
To me the man face clearly states who was wrong. No need for an unarmed man to have this happen.
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I have seen how fast things go south when a mentally ill subject is truly wishing to harm themselves or others. I'm empathetic to their situation but fully recognize and accept the fact that when the need arises force whether it be non lethal or deadly.... *said individual* has bought and paid for it.

You want to save the mentally ill? Absolutely but keep them medicated in a secured facility.....or do you keep them on the streets where everyone is at risk?

A *cool* thing about the mentally ill, they can kill or injure and get away with it as they don't know any better...
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

ric27 said:
I have seen how fast things go south when a mentally ill subject is truly wishing to harm themselves or others. I'm empathetic to their situation but fully recognize and accept the fact that when the need arises force whether it be non lethal or deadly.... *said individual* has bought and paid for it.

You want to save the mentally ill? Absolutely but keep them medicated in a secured facility.....or do you keep them on the streets where everyone is at risk?

A *cool* thing about the mentally ill, they can kill or injure and get away with it as they don't know any better...
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Where was Emergency Services in all this? Where was the mental health professional during the detainment of that man? Do you see that person in the video with the police? I don't. My ex-wife is a mental health therapist who worked for Emergency Services in that very capacity to help the police deal with these people. Not once did she ever convey a story where the person needed to be beaten beyond recognition and suffocated to protect her life or the officers. Before the man was taken into custody, a mental health professional like her should have been on the scene. Every state has these professionals, and they are typically semi-independent operations shared by cities and/or counties. They work 24/7 with local magistrates to detain mentally ill people when necessary.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

American said:
Where was Emergency Services in all this? Where was the mental health professional during the detainment of that man? Do you see that person in the video with the police? I don't. My ex-wife is a mental health therapist who worked for Emergency Services in that very capacity to help the police deal with these people. Not once did she ever convey a story where the person needed to be beaten beyond recognition and suffocated to protect her life or the officers. Before the man was taken into custody, a mental health professional like her should have been on the scene. Every state has these professionals, and they are typically semi-independent operations shared by cities and/or counties. They work 24/7 with local magistrates to detain mentally ill people when necessary.
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Stop sending cops to deal with things that aren't police problems.... call a psychiatrist, instead..yet, they still call, the cops when they need someone picked up because they won't.

There is a threshold where it matters not the reason for the behavior - the behavior, whatever the cause, must be handled in a timely and decisive manner. If it is not, other people may be hurt and or killed. Oftentimes when things reach this point, it does not go well for the subject involved.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

ric27 said:
Stop sending cops to deal with things that aren't police problems.... call a psychiatrist, instead..yet, they still call, the cops when they need someone picked up because they won't.

There is a threshold where it matters not the reason for the behavior - the behavior, whatever the cause, must be handled in a timely and decisive manner. If it is not, other people may be hurt and or killed. Oftentimes when things reach this point, it does not go well for the subject involved.
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Show me in the video when an immediate concern was warranted. There was plenty of time to call in the mental healther professional.

...when they need someone picked up because they won't.
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^^^ What's this suppose to mean?
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

ric27 said:
I have seen how fast things go south when a mentally ill subject is truly wishing to harm themselves or others. I'm empathetic to their situation but fully recognize and accept the fact that when the need arises force whether it be non lethal or deadly.... *said individual* has bought and paid for it.

You want to save the mentally ill? Absolutely but keep them medicated in a secured facility.....or do you keep them on the streets where everyone is at risk?

A *cool* thing about the mentally ill, they can kill or injure and get away with it as they don't know any better...
Click to expand...

Almost as cool as cops getting away with murder.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

ric27 said:
Stop sending cops to deal with things that aren't police problems.... call a psychiatrist, instead..yet, they still call, the cops when they need someone picked up because they won't.

There is a threshold where it matters not the reason for the behavior - the behavior, whatever the cause, must be handled in a timely and decisive manner. If it is not, other people may be hurt and or killed. Oftentimes when things reach this point, it does not go well for the subject involved.
Click to expand...

Ah, it's OK for cops to murder since it wasn't their job.

Bull****.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

ric27 said:
I have seen how fast things go south when a mentally ill subject is truly wishing to harm themselves or others. I'm empathetic to their situation but fully recognize and accept the fact that when the need arises force whether it be non lethal or deadly.... *said individual* has bought and paid for it.
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Point out in the video where the subject showed any indication of wishing to do harm to himself or anyone else.

Point out how many officers were present and capable of properly restraining him in the midst of 100 pleas for mercy and help.

That’s what I thought.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

ric27 said:
I have seen how fast things go south when a mentally ill subject is truly wishing to harm themselves or others. I'm empathetic to their situation but fully recognize and accept the fact that when the need arises force whether it be non lethal or deadly.... *said individual* has bought and paid for it.

You want to save the mentally ill? Absolutely but keep them medicated in a secured facility.....or do you keep them on the streets where everyone is at risk?

A *cool* thing about the mentally ill, they can kill or injure and get away with it as they don't know any better...
Click to expand...

Did you see the video of the beating?
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
They did not beat him to death.
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Oh boy... :roll:
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

ric27 said:
I have seen how fast things go south when a mentally ill subject is truly wishing to harm themselves or others. I'm empathetic to their situation but fully recognize and accept the fact that when the need arises force whether it be non lethal or deadly.... *said individual* has bought and paid for it.

You want to save the mentally ill? Absolutely but keep them medicated in a secured facility.....or do you keep them on the streets where everyone is at risk?

A *cool* thing about the mentally ill, they can kill or injure and get away with it as they don't know any better...
Click to expand...

Did the cops Taze him? Can't six cops simply sit on the guy til he complies? What is with the beating? This is where cops are in the absolute wrong.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Deuce said:
They beat a man to death.
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The picture of him in the hospital was horrible. The fact that he was autistic and crying for his officer dad to come help him makes even worse.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
They did not beat him to death.
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From the sounds of things, they beat him, sat on him, tazed him...

He later died mainly because they sat on him, but partially because he was beaten and tazed.

I don't see how you can, with a straight face, regardless of your opinion as to the legality of said actions on the part of the police, seriously state that the aforementioned beating did not at least contribute to his death.
FFS at the very least the stress of his body having to deal with the damage from being beaten would have hindered his recovery from the other injuries.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

They blasted his face with a taser twice… in the face. wtf…

The Mark said:
From the sounds of things, they beat him, sat on him, tazed him...

He later died mainly because they sat on him, but partially because he was beaten and tazed.

I don't see how you can, with a straight face, regardless of your opinion as to the legality of said actions on the part of the police, seriously state that the aforementioned beating did not at least contribute to his death.
FFS at the very least the stress of his body having to deal with the damage from being beaten would have hindered his recovery from the other injuries.
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Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

American said:
Idiotic? When I read your posts, that's the way it sounds.........he had it coming.
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That is nothing more than you reading into it what you want to.
Saying he is the cause, which he is, in no way shape or form says he deserved it or had it coming.


American said:
Why did they have to beat his head to a pulp?
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I see you are not paying attention. They did not.
One Officer, Officer Cicinelli, felt he was out of options in trying to subdue him, as Kelly was resisting with great force.
So he smashed his face with the butt of the taser.


American said:
He might have been passive aggressive or something,
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WTF?
Passive aggressive?
Do you also not understand the significance of 5 to 6 tasering having no effect?
Do you also not understand multiple calls for backup?
Do you also not understand the words of the Officer saying he felt that he was out of options?

My Gawd! He was fighting against them so much that it took that many Officers to restrain him. Unfortunately their weight crushed him.

Passive aggressive? Not!

Thankfully the Jury got it right.


American said:
but did he need to beaten and suffocated?
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These officers are suppose to be professionals.[/QUOTE]And an Officer may meet force with force to subdue a resisting individual. That includes striking the individual. They even give officers force multipliers/specific tools to assist. Such as batons.

Nor was it like the Officers set out to suffocate him. I hope that isn't what you are suggesting.




BmanMcfly said:
Anyone that is defending the police did not watch the 15 minute beat down administered.

Or you didn't notice that the resistance started when the police hit him with a baton unprovoked.

The precedence here is that cops have a license to kill. We'll see how much you support this if it's your kids that encounter these thugs that call themselves coos.
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There was no "beat down".
There was an attempt to subdue.
And most of that was wrestling with the resisting person.

The baton was in direct response to Kelly failing to comply. So saying it was unprovoked is ridiculous.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

:laughat:
SMTA said:
Cause and effect.

It is called proximate cause.

He would not have died but for the excessive use of force by the cops.

Hopefully, your karma will catch you quickly.
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But not for his non-compliance ...
But not for his resiting ...
Force would not have been used.
He is the proximate cause.

SMTA said:
Hopefully, your karma will catch you quickly.
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:doh
Focus. This is about him, not me.

His obviously caught him though.




disneydude said:
You can say it 1, 10 , 100, 1,000,000 times...it doesn't make it true. Obviously it is you who hasn't watched the video. The blow to the midsection that instigated this entire this was completely unprovoked. But hey...it is obvious that you either want to see something that isn't there...or simple haven't watched it. Either way you are going to believe what you are going to believe.
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It is true because it is true.

Obviously you haven't watched the video as it was not unprovoked. It was in direct response to Kelly's actions.

As already provided, so pay attention.
Kelly laid hands on an Officer and then failed to comply when told to get on the ground. And instead of complying he then attempted to flee.

Kelly provoked it use.


Unfortunately for you, I have the Jury's verdict on my side.
What do you have? Only what you wish to believe, which has already been shown to be unrealistic.


disneydude said:
67160191d1389880205-police-not-guilty-kelly-thomas-death-da-wont-try-3rd-officer-kelly-thomas.jpg
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The words on your image in reference to Kelly? :doh

Between 1990 and 2011, Thomas had 92 encounters with the police. These encounters ranged from minor infractions such as trespassing to assault with a deadly weapon.

Death of Kelly Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

I would suggest that that is not being known as gentile.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

TML said:
You are a complete idiot to say is death was not a result of them beating him; they did, in fact, beat him to death.
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That would be you, as he was not beaten to death. Learn the damn evidence.
He asphyxiated as a result of being crushed by the Officers weight.



TML said:
Do you need me to provide videos that show excessive force (aside from the one in question), so that you can understand how stupid you are? Spare me your other videos irrelevant to this case.
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:doh:lamo
Spare me your bs. He was resisting and was not beaten to death as you have falsely asserted.

And my offer was to show the comparison between one who was not resisting, as compared to what Kelly was doing, which was resisting.
Which is very relevant.


:laughat:
TML said:
Man sitting while Cop puts on gloves (presumably to search the man)
Officer: “Feet out in front of you”
Man hesitant, but complies
Officer: “Put your hands on your f*cking knees (while feet out in front)”
(Note: This is not a position which an officer would normally perform a search, and there was no reason to order him into this position – his current sitting position with elbows rested on knees is absolutely unthreatening)
Man complies
Officer: “Now, see my fist?”
Man: “Yeah, what about ‘em?”
Officer: “They’re getting ready to f*ck you up”
Man:”Well start punching then, dude, I’m tired on playing these games” (as man puts his hands up)
Officer forcefully grabs him by the elbow
Man stands
Officers pull out batons
Frantic man backs away in fear of the threat he received for no reason
Beating begins
Man dies
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Utter spin and ignores other happenings in an effort to spin.
Just as before, Kelly had been playing a game. Here he is pretending he didn't know what was expected and then that he couldn't do it, which we both know he already showed he knew exactly what was expected and was capable of doing it.
He was playing a game, not cooperating and lying.
And after the Officer pushed his arm in the direction he wanted him to comply, Kelly laid hands on the Officer. That is a big no-no.
Then after getting to his feet in an act of defiance, he refused to get on the ground when ordered.



TML said:
Excon said:
Do you not understand the significance of 5 to 6 tasering having no effect?
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Yeah ordering someone on their stomach and comply with orders while being tased six times (as if he could comply while being tased) while on the ground with 6 officers on scene. Excessive Force
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:lamo

So you are obviously saying that you do not understand the significance of 5 to six tasering having no effect. Figures.
And as the taserings didn't not work, it is absurd to make any such claim that they were excessive force. Duh!


TML said:
No, there were so many officers that beating him to death wasn’t necessary as he consistently pleaded that he couldn’t breath
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He was not being beaten to death. If you think so, you are seeing things.
He was fighting against them so much that it took that many Officers to restrain him. Unfortunately their weight crushed him.


TML said:
That jury is as f*cked in the head as you
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Emotional response. And again, wrong.
Go figure.

Stay focused. This isn't about me.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

sKiTzo said:
5 cops can easily take someone like Thomas down and cuff them in a matter of seconds, without throwing 1 punch or using a taser. The video shows he wasn't resisting. If you are getting tased and beat with batons and bludgeoned to death, you might involuntarily try to protect yourself, but that isn't resisting, is it?
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Is that what you think?
Strange as the video shows that line of thought to be wrong.

It wasn't easy.
And he was resisting so much so, that multiple taserings had no effect. Go figure.




SheWolf said:
They blasted his face with a taser twice… in the face. wtf…
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That is not what happened. Learn the evidence.
Officer Cicinelli, felt he was out of options in trying to subdue him, as Kelly was resisting with great force, and smashed his face with it.. That would be using it as a blunt object.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
That is nothing more than you reading into it what you want to.
Saying he is the cause, which he is, in no way shape or form says he deserved it or had it coming.


I see you are not paying attention. They did not.
One Officer, Officer Cicinelli, felt he was out of options in trying to subdue him, as Kelly was resisting with great force.
So he smashed his face with the butt of the taser.


WTF?
Passive aggressive?
Do you also not understand the significance of 5 to 6 tasering having no effect?
Do you also not understand multiple calls for backup?
Do you also not understand the words of the Officer saying he felt that he was out of options?

My Gawd! He was fighting against them so much that it took that many Officers to restrain him. Unfortunately their weight crushed him.

Passive aggressive? Not!

Thankfully the Jury got it right.




These officers are suppose to be professionals.
Click to expand...
And an Officer may meet force with force to subdue a resisting individual. That includes striking the individual. They even give officers force multipliers/specific tools to assist. Such as batons.

Nor was it like the Officers set out to suffocate him. I hope that isn't what you are suggesting.




There was no "beat down".
There was an attempt to subdue.
And most of that was wrestling with the resisting person.

The baton was in direct response to Kelly failing to comply. So saying it was unprovoked is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, he got that face from a little wrestling with officers. :roll: BTW, your post sucks ****, and accomplished nothing.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

American said:
Yeah, he got that face from a little wrestling with officers.
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Still not paying attention I see.

So again. From what you quoted and obviously didn't fully read, or understand.
They did not.
One Officer, Officer Cicinelli, felt he was out of options in trying to subdue him, as Kelly was resisting with great force.
So he smashed his face with the butt of the taser.​

That is what caused the facial injuries.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Bodhisattva said:
Did the cops Taze him? Can't six cops simply sit on the guy til he complies? What is with the beating? This is where cops are in the absolute wrong.
Click to expand...

You simply do not know. You see what you want to see in that video.

You figure....well, you get, the ED contained and you strapped him/her down so EMS can sedate, the crazy ****.
lol actually getting all that done when someone has retard strength can be an entirely different scenario plus *their* pain tolerance is going to make OC spray ineffective and shrug aside any taser follow up
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Kobie said:
Did you see the video of the beating?
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Which clearly shows an uncooperative and resistant individual

It's an absolute tragedy that he kicked, the bucket...but that was on him
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Moderator's Warning:
The personal comments and backseat modding need to stop now. Stick to the topic, which is not each other and leave out the baiting.
 
Re: Police not guilty in Kelly Thomas death; DA won't try 3rd officer

Excon said:
:laughat:
But not for his non-compliance ...
But not for his resiting ...
Force would not have been used.
He is the proximate cause.


:doh
Focus. This is about him, not me.

His obviously caught him though.




It is true because it is true.

Obviously you haven't watched the video as it was not unprovoked. It was in direct response to Kelly's actions.

As already provided, so pay attention.
Kelly laid hands on an Officer and then failed to comply when told to get on the ground. And instead of complying he then attempted to flee.

Kelly provoked it use.


Unfortunately for you, I have the Jury's verdict on my side.
What do you have? Only what you wish to believe, which has already been shown to be unrealistic.



The words on your image in reference to Kelly? :doh

Between 1990 and 2011, Thomas had 92 encounters with the police. These encounters ranged from minor infractions such as trespassing to assault with a deadly weapon.

Death of Kelly Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

I would suggest that that is not being known as gentile.
Click to expand...

Force used to control is acceptable.

Excessive force was uncalled for, and resulted in his demise.

You need to understand the word excessive.
 
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