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Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22:118]

Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Travis007 said:
Keep your jew hatred confined to the crap hole known as Denmark....
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Denmark is a very nice place.

I wouldn't hold an entire country responsible for the extremist views of one of its inhabitants.
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Gardener said:
Denmark is a very nice place.

I wouldn't hold an entire country responsible for the extremist views of one of its inhabitants.
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its a sess pool of anti semiism.. always has been.. granted my stattement come off as absolute, and nothing is.. but is general Denmark is very anti semetic
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Andalublue said:
Whatever.

Most humans will judge a thinker and a writer on what he writes and what he says.
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and most intelligent people see the "agenda"
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Gardener said:
In the case of his work in the field of linguistics, he is a thinker. In the field of politics, his screed is so derivative and reactive as to represent something quite different than original thought.

A thinking person is capable of reading Bin Laden's Letters to America and see every single theme repeated by Chomsky.

.....but, yes, he should be judged on what he says and not on what he claims. That was my whole point, especially as his hackneyed screed is so mind-numbingly imbalanced and unfair when it comes to his hatred of Israel.

He is simply acting out some unresolved issues with his father as far as I'm concerned, but that does not make his idiotic views any less bigoted. His father was an ardent supporter of Zionism, so to escape his shadow, Noam has become an extremist anti-Zionist. The overlap between extreme anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism is so strong as to suggest the former is but a cover for the latter. If a person were to spend a considerable effort towards demonizing anything and everything about Japan with never one fair word, would people buy into the false claims such a person had nothing against the Japanese? I wouldn't, and I don't buy into the denial offered by these vicious anti-Zionists.
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I think we're in danger of derailing this thread and discussing ME topics in BN.

I've replied to you in a new thread in the ME section.
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

24107 said:
Bullets work just as good as gas chambers
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wow... just wow..this is why the internet is bad
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

PeteEU said:
Actually he was defence minister and lied to the Prime Minister and the Cabinet. Sharon found excuse after excuse to extend the advance further than the 40 km that was agreed on. Everything collapsed on Sharon when his Christian terrorists were allowed and with IDF help, to commit one of the worst acts of terror in human history. And ultimately his actions killed the Prime Minister since he entered a deep depression when he realized Sharon had played him...
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umm yea.. dead jews and citizens of Israel is never a reason to fight back right?.. cry your tears of bull**** to the ignorant
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Andalublue said:
I think we're in danger of derailing this thread and discussing ME topics in BN.

I've replied to you in a new thread in the ME section.
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There may be a reason why I do not respond ;)
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Andalublue said:
No problem. It's there if you feel you want to. :peace
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That's not quite what I was getting at.


What I want to do and what I can do are often two different things.
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Andalublue said:
Some intelligent people with an agenda will always see one, whether or not it exists.
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your fancy post of nonsense is total bs like all your posts.. please never talk with me..I have seen through you for years..
 
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Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Gardener said:
That's not quite what I was getting at.


What I want to do and what I can do are often two different things.
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Okay, but I'll do my damnedest to keep it civil if you will. ML restrictions do not preclude a discussion about Chomsky or the anti-Z=anti-s issue though. I certainly won't call you a Zionist and you refrain from calling me a fascist.
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

For those who are interested, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger wrote an op-ed concerning the late Prime Minister Sharon. In part, Secretary Kissinger wrote:

Arik Sharon started as a warrior. He ended his career on the way to being a peacemaker. On that journey from fighting in every one of Israel’s wars to lying comatose for eight years in a Jerusalem hospital, he symbolized the anguish and dilemmas of Israel. A people who had come to their historic homeland had established themselves, surrounded by a culture that never acquiesced in ceding what it considered Islamic patrimony. Even before the proclamation of the Jewish state, Israel found itself in a state of war that has never ended. It has always lacked the essential prerequisite for peaceful coexistence with its neighbors: their recognition of its existence, which everywhere else is the precondition of diplomacy, not its outcome...

As prime minister, Sharon unexpectedly broadened his definition of security. He sought to bridge the gap between physical and political security with the same courage and decisiveness that had brought him victory in battle. He volunteered the largest withdrawal in Israel’s history. He ended the Israeli occupation of Gaza and returned it to Arab self-rule as a unilateral act without reciprocity, abandoning even the Jewish settlements that had been established there. In a similar spirit, he withdrew troops from southern Lebanon. These gestures were conceived as a test case for a negotiation about the future of the West Bank, which Sharon once had viewed as a permanent Israeli outpost. The man who had identified security with the acquisition of territory became willing to cede territory for an outcome to fulfill the hopes for peace.

The entire piece can be found at: Henry A. Kissinger: Ariel Sharon’s journey from soldier to statesman - The Washington Post
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

donsutherland1 said:
For those who are interested, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger wrote an op-ed concerning the late Prime Minister Sharon. In part, Secretary Kissinger wrote:

Arik Sharon started as a warrior. He ended his career on the way to being a peacemaker. On that journey from fighting in every one of Israel’s wars to lying comatose for eight years in a Jerusalem hospital, he symbolized the anguish and dilemmas of Israel. A people who had come to their historic homeland had established themselves, surrounded by a culture that never acquiesced in ceding what it considered Islamic patrimony. Even before the proclamation of the Jewish state, Israel found itself in a state of war that has never ended. It has always lacked the essential prerequisite for peaceful coexistence with its neighbors: their recognition of its existence, which everywhere else is the precondition of diplomacy, not its outcome...

As prime minister, Sharon unexpectedly broadened his definition of security. He sought to bridge the gap between physical and political security with the same courage and decisiveness that had brought him victory in battle. He volunteered the largest withdrawal in Israel’s history. He ended the Israeli occupation of Gaza and returned it to Arab self-rule as a unilateral act without reciprocity, abandoning even the Jewish settlements that had been established there. In a similar spirit, he withdrew troops from southern Lebanon. These gestures were conceived as a test case for a negotiation about the future of the West Bank, which Sharon once had viewed as a permanent Israeli outpost. The man who had identified security with the acquisition of territory became willing to cede territory for an outcome to fulfill the hopes for peace.

The entire piece can be found at: Henry A. Kissinger: Ariel Sharon’s journey from soldier to statesman - The Washington Post
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great article Don.. thank you
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Travis007 said:
umm yea.. dead jews and citizens of Israel is never a reason to fight back right?.. cry your tears of bull**** to the ignorant
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Okay, where the hell do I even state anything about the reasons behind the invasion or anything remotely close? All I stated, which is a fact.. that Sharon lied to the Isreali PM and Cabinet and extended the area of military action much further than originally agreed. On top of that it is a fact that the IDF assisted the Christian Phalanges fighter to commit the massacres of Sabra and Shatila.... this is too a fact since even the Kahan Commission stated so.
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Travis007 said:
its a sess pool of anti semiism.. always has been.. granted my stattement come off as absolute, and nothing is.. but is general Denmark is very anti semetic
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wow... this not only factually wrong but highly insulting. Can you please show us anti-semetic behaviour in Denmark that is not linked to the usual right wing neo nazi idiots that are in all countries (and mostly funded by the US right.. but hey!)
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Moderator's Warning:
Ok, the topic is Ariel Sharon, not Denmark and definitely not each other. Please return to the topic and ONLY the topic or exit passes and/or points will be swiftly handed out. Thank you.
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

PeteEU said:
Okay, where the hell do I even state anything about the reasons behind the invasion or anything remotely close? All I stated, which is a fact.. that Sharon lied to the Isreali PM and Cabinet and extended the area of military action much further than originally agreed. On top of that it is a fact that the IDF assisted the Christian Phalanges fighter to commit the massacres of Sabra and Shatila.... this is too a fact since even the Kahan Commission stated so.
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Define "assisted". I dont recall any statement by the commitie that the IDF assisted the massacres
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Andalublue said:
You're asking these questions of Chomsky. Several of them were answered in that interview I posted. I'm sure he has answered all of them at various stages. How come you can't find any direct quotes to back up your assertions about him?
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The bigot is careful with his own words, but it remains clear what side he falls on.
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

j-mac said:
The bigot is careful with his own words, but it remains clear what side he falls on.
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So, still nothing, just us and them; this or that; good or bad. It must be nice to inhabit your simplistic world of black and white.
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

ido_ said:
Define "assisted". I dont recall any statement by the commitie that the IDF assisted the massacres
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The IDF launched flares over the camps for them to see in the dark. That is assisting... no the IDF did not kill anyone, but they provided aid, both in weapons and logistics, not to mention did not prevent the massacres despite having troops outside the camps. There is such thing as aiding someone by doing next to nothing to prevent them doing harm.
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

He's like Gerry Adams to me. He's suffered quite a bit already so I don't think there' any more to say except RIP.
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

Andalublue said:
So, still nothing, just us and them; this or that; good or bad. It must be nice to inhabit your simplistic world of black and white.
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Yes it is much simpler to be able to recognize right from wrong. All though Chomsky is careful enough to not make overt slurs, and slams against Jewish people, he certainly supports all the right causes, and people that do.

Show me your friends, and I'll show you who you are.
 
Re: Ariel Sharon dies.[W:22]

PeteEU said:
The IDF launched flares over the camps for them to see in the dark. That is assisting... no the IDF did not kill anyone, but they provided aid, both in weapons and logistics, not to mention did not prevent the massacres despite having troops outside the camps. There is such thing as aiding someone by doing next to nothing to prevent them doing harm.
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The phalanges were to enter the camps and clean them from combatants, not clean them from women and children.
If doing nothing counts as aiding then the Palestinian civilians who do nothing when terrorists launch rockets from their backyards and schools are aiding terror.
 
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