West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency declared

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

CanadaJohn said:

Yes, it is remarkable that a State and its people would want to fully benefit from a natural resource they have within their borders. Perhaps it would be better to close down the mines and all ancillary industry/business and put the entire State of West Virginia on the dole.

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Reductio ad absurdum. Otherwise known as lazy, dishonest debating.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Pay attention to the shell game that is going on here.

Freedom Industries is the name of the org that is responsible for the spill. Now check out this slick move...


This looks like Freedom Industries was invented as a company to dump all of the debt of other companies into it and to deflect fault for the spill and sacrifice it with a bankruptcy as a front/cover for the companies really involved.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Any bets on whether the owners of Freedom Industries will pay for the spill in any way whatsoever?

It seems the misnamed industry declared bankruptcy in order to avoid paying the lawsuits and cleanup, which would be a lot more than the five million mentioned above anyway, and then was sold to the same people who owned it to begin with.

That's right, the owners of the corporation sold it to themselves.

Forrest, through another firm he owns, paid roughly $20 million to acquire Freedom Industries and orchestrate its Dec. 31 merger with four tiny distribution, blending and storage firms that act as middle men between big chemical and big coal companies, according to a person close to the company but not authorized to speak for it. He added that Forrest just “had the misfortune of buying a plant just before all hell broke loose.”

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and the government of, by, and for the people, including, presumably, the ones who lost their water supplies, the one that did not inspect the facilities for more than two decades, makes all of this sort of thing perfectly legal.

Cue: Republicans blame Democrats and vice versa.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

poweRob said:

Pay attention to the shell game that is going on here.

Freedom Industries is the name of the org that is responsible for the spill. Now check out this slick move...

On Thursday, a source close to Freedom Industries, who asked to remain anonymous because of pending lawsuits, told The Charleston Gazette that Chemstream Holdings is owned by J. Clifford Forrest of Kittanning, Pa.

Forrest is listed as "manager" of Freedom affiliates Etowah River Terminal and Poca Blending in a merger filing from Dec. 31, 2013.

About an hour after its bankruptcy filing, Freedom filed an emergency motion for what's called "debtor-in-possession," or DIP, financing, which would allow it to secure up to a $5 million loan to continue to function in some capacity. The loan would, according to the filing, "provide additional liquidity to [Freedom] in order to allow it to continue as a going concern."

The lender in a debtor-in-possession case generally gets first priority when it comes time for the debtor, in this case Freedom, to pay money back.

"Under the bankruptcy code, when there is DIP financing from a DIP lender, 99 percent of the time, they get priority over all the other creditors," said Bob Simon, a prominent bankruptcy lawyer with the Pittsburgh firm Reed Smith. "You're putting your money in at risk, and the debtor is not going to have a lot of options, so the bankruptcy clerk permits the DIP lender to get priority over all the other lenders."

Freedom's proposed lender is a company called WV Funding LLC. That company does not exist in West Virginia, according to business records on file with the West Virginia secretary of state. Pennsylvania's secretary of state also has no records online for it.

The DIP agreement has places to sign for Freedom Industries and for WV Funding "by Mountaineer Funding LLC."

Mountaineer Funding was incorporated with the West Virginia secretary of state on Friday. Its one listed member is J. Clifford Forrest, Freedom Industries' owner.

link...​

This looks like Freedom Industries was invented as a company to dump all of the debt of other companies into it and to deflect fault for the spill and sacrifice it with a bankruptcy as a front/cover for the companies really involved.

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Thank you for the details.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Dittohead not! said:

Any bets on whether the owners of Freedom Industries will pay for the spill in any way whatsoever?

It seems the misnamed industry declared bankruptcy in order to avoid paying the lawsuits and cleanup, which would be a lot more than the five million mentioned above anyway, and then was sold to the same people who owned it to begin with.

That's right, the owners of the corporation sold it to themselves.



and the government of, by, and for the people, including, presumably, the ones who lost their water supplies, the one that did not inspect the facilities for more than two decades, makes all of this sort of thing perfectly legal.

Cue: Republicans blame Democrats and vice versa.

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No doubt.

Always follow the money.

Thieves from both parties will have dirty hands on this one.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

SMTA said:

No doubt.

Always follow the money.

Thieves from both parties will have dirty hands on this one.

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well someone needs to be held accountable for this.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Dittohead not! said:

Any bets on whether the owners of Freedom Industries will pay for the spill in any way whatsoever?

It seems the misnamed industry declared bankruptcy in order to avoid paying the lawsuits and cleanup, which would be a lot more than the five million mentioned above anyway, and then was sold to the same people who owned it to begin with.

That's right, the owners of the corporation sold it to themselves.



and the government of, by, and for the people, including, presumably, the ones who lost their water supplies, the one that did not inspect the facilities for more than two decades, makes all of this sort of thing perfectly legal.

Cue: Republicans blame Democrats and vice versa.

Click to expand...

Looks to me like Freedom was invented recently because they knew that there was a spill that was going to get found out and then bankrupt that company so creditors and lawsuits will basically be chasing and targetting a virtual empty phantom company.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Mr.Nick said:

The chemical is NOT lethal (or even harmful) in it's most condensed form...

I understand these people are worried but they CAN use the water, if they're concerned they can boil it and THEN drink it.

Of course United States citizens have been conditioned to rely on government - they can't even boil water.

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Go to the link. Boiling the water will not help.

Geez!

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

CanadaJohn said:

Yes, it is remarkable that a State and its people would want to fully benefit from a natural resource they have within their borders. Perhaps it would be better to close down the mines and all ancillary industry/business and put the entire State of West Virginia on the dole.

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I think the people of West Virginia fully expect those corporations that profit in West Virginia to be responsible to the environment, as well as to health and safety concerns. Your implication is that if West Virginians don't want their water poisoned, or environment degraded their only alternative is welfare. This is the same arrogance that allows a chemical storage facility to exist, with virtually no containment, on a hill above the river, just upriver from the drinking water supply of 300,000 people. The people of West Virginia should be outraged at the lack of corporate responsibility, and lax regulation that allowed this to happen. There is a broken trust between industry, and the people that this accident has exposed for all to see, and to imply it should be tolerated because there is no choice denies reason.

B

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

orphani said:

I think the people of West Virginia fully expect those corporations that profit in West Virginia to be responsible to the environment, as well as to health and safety concerns. Your implication is that if West Virginians don't want their water poisoned, or environment degraded their only alternative is welfare. This is the same arrogance that allows a chemical storage facility to exist, with virtually no containment, on a hill above the river, just upriver from the drinking water supply of 300,000 people. The people of West Virginia should be outraged at the lack of corporate responsibility, and lax regulation that allowed this to happen. There is a broken trust between industry, and the people that this accident has exposed for all to see, and to imply it should be tolerated because there is no choice denies reason.

B

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No - I won't speak for you, so perhaps you won't speak for me. I not once said that the people of West Virginia don't want responsible businesses exploiting their resources for the benefit of the state's citizens. I fully expect that the good people of West Virginia will do whatever is necessary to have those responsible for this disaster bring full restitution to the state and as well, if proven, pay for any criminal activity involved. It's as it should be.

My comments were directed at those who seem to think that the only alternative to "water poisoned, or environment degraded" is to eliminate all business activity that may potentially lead to accidents harmful to the environment. The knee-jerk reaction to accidents like this is "blame the mines", "shut down the mines" when in fact the mines had nothing to do with this accident. It's similar to the knee-jerk reaction to an oil pipeline spill to shut down all oil transportation by pipeline when there are far more trains transporting oil now because of blind environmentalists who can't see the forest for the trees.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

This is the natural result of a corporately-influenced state that either doesn't enforce inspections, or deliberately takes funding from inspection organizations. Someone got paid off. This kind of crap happens all the time in developing countries... it shouldn't be happening in the United States.

Expect more of this kind of thing as the government continues to be the marionette of industry.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Swit said:

Thank god the EPA's budget got slashed 34% for 2014 otherwise situations like this may have gotten caught before it was a problem. Now we have more reality TV for the news cycle.

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When's the last time the EPA actually caught the problem before it was a problem? Where were they during the BP spill?

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

CanadaJohn said:

No - I won't speak for you, so perhaps you won't speak for me. I not once said that the people of West Virginia don't want responsible businesses exploiting their resources for the benefit of the state's citizens. I fully expect that the good people of West Virginia will do whatever is necessary to have those responsible for this disaster bring full restitution to the state and as well, if proven, pay for any criminal activity involved. It's as it should be.

My comments were directed at those who seem to think that the only alternative to "water poisoned, or environment degraded" is to eliminate all business activity that may potentially lead to accidents harmful to the environment. The knee-jerk reaction to accidents like this is "blame the mines", "shut down the mines" when in fact the mines had nothing to do with this accident. It's similar to the knee-jerk reaction to an oil pipeline spill to shut down all oil transportation by pipeline when there are far more trains transporting oil now because of blind environmentalists who can't see the forest for the trees.

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If I understood your comment out of context, my apologies.
I agree that there is always a balance that must be struck between human need, and the resulting environmental; and consequently human cost. But the idea of balance in this case is farcical. Accidents do happen, but when obvious potential hazards are overlooked they are invited to occur. I understand that there are those in the industry that take safety seriously, but they are undermined by a culture that minimizes the potential environmental dangers by taking what they consider calculated risks to increase profits. West Virginia law does not require routine inspection of chemical storage facilities, as other states do, because of anti-regulatory opposition in state government, supported by the coal, and chemical industries. Do you think chemical storage facilities should be inspected to meet safety standards, or is that just a knee-jerk reaction? I hope you see that as a no-brainer- senator Manchin doesn't seem to.
Now as far as the mining industry not bearing responsibility; the coal mining industry, and the chemical industry are completely intertwined in West Virginia. In fact, the chemical that spilled was used for washing coal, and the current owner owns the Rosebud mining co. in PA. And to the extent that the industry, and politicians fight sensible regulations, like creating 100ft buffer zones for streams in the valleys so they're not buried under debris, they have to bare responsibility. Already 1,900 miles of head water streams have been covered, and the resulting contamination is inexcusable.

The coal industry is already dying. It now only employs about 4% of West Virginians, and West Virginia ranks about 46th in state poverty, so the heavy price they are paying, and will continue to pay, long after coal companies leave, in environmental, and health issues (west Virginia ranks very high in the number of cancers) is hardly balanced by the economic advantages very few enjoy.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

CanadaJohn said:

No - I won't speak for you, so perhaps you won't speak for me. I not once said that the people of West Virginia don't want responsible businesses exploiting their resources for the benefit of the state's citizens. I fully expect that the good people of West Virginia will do whatever is necessary to have those responsible for this disaster bring full restitution to the state and as well, if proven, pay for any criminal activity involved. It's as it should be.
My comments were directed at those who seem to think that the only alternative to "water poisoned, or environment degraded" is to eliminate all business activity that may potentially lead to accidents harmful to the environment. The knee-jerk reaction to accidents like this is "blame the mines", "shut down the mines" when in fact the mines had nothing to do with this accident. It's similar to the knee-jerk reaction to an oil pipeline spill to shut down all oil transportation by pipeline when there are far more trains transporting oil now because of blind environmentalists who can't see the forest for the trees.

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The company responsible has gone bankrupt, the people of West Virginia do not have a company that they can go after to seek restitution from.

That type of behavior is very common among industrial companies that can cause environmental damage. The mining industry has vast numbers of toxic sites that lay abandoned after the mine closed down, the company that did the mining is no longer operating as well, the profits flowed to other companies, the clean up of the site left to taxpayers

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

West Virginia seems to be to the USA what Albania is to Europe.

Northern Light said:

This is the natural result of a corporately-influenced state that either doesn't enforce inspections, or deliberately takes funding from inspection organizations. Someone got paid off. This kind of crap happens all the time in developing countries... it shouldn't be happening in the United States.

Expect more of this kind of thing as the government continues to be the marionette of industry.

Click to expand...

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Lord Tammerlain said:

The company responsible has gone bankrupt, the people of West Virginia do not have a company that they can go after to seek restitution from.

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Except for Uncle Sam.

That type of behavior is very common among industrial companies that can cause environmental damage. The mining industry has vast numbers of toxic sites that lay abandoned after the mine closed down, the company that did the mining is no longer operating as well, the profits flowed to other companies, the clean up of the site left to taxpayers

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Democrats have been missing an opportunity to convert the mining/Appalachian/moonshinin/ weed-growin states
like TN, KY, WV to join them.They did get VA.

I like DEMs like Bashear, and he will be huge this year with ACA .

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Swit said:

Thank god the EPA's budget got slashed 34% for 2014 otherwise situations like this may have gotten caught before it was a problem. Now we have more reality TV for the news cycle.

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Maybe they should have a talk with Region 5 out of Chicago and get them to stop harassing everyone so hard in that region to free up budget for people in West Virginia

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

American said:

When's the last time the EPA actually caught the problem before it was a problem? Where were they during the BP spill?

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A large number of EPA regulations exist to prevent a problem from forming in the first place, the inspections are designed to ensure the polices are being followed.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

NIMBY said:

Except for Uncle Sam.


Democrats have been missing an opportunity to convert the mining/Appalachian/moonshinin/ weed-growin states
like TN, KY, WV to join them.They did get VA.

I like DEMs like Bashear, and he will be huge this year with ACA .

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West Virginia and Eastern KY, coal country are not going back to being Democratic because of the Dems war on coal. The Dems are costing that region their livelihood. Forcing people to lose their jobs is not a good way to get them to vote for you. Virginia is becoming much more like Maryland than a deep south state. I still haven't found any polls on KY concerning the ACA. I suppose sooner or later there will be one. Ky isn't as red as most people think.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

American said:

When's the last time the EPA actually caught the problem before it was a problem? Where were they during the BP spill?

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Fetching coffee and doughnuts for the other 66%?

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Perotista said:

West Virginia and Eastern KY, coal country are not going back to being Democratic because of the Dems war on coal.

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The Dem war on coal you speak of is far less than the GOP Corporate Polluters War on the good folks of WV and KY.

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Perotista said:

I still haven't found any polls on KY concerning the ACA. I suppose sooner or later there will be one. Ky isn't as red as most people think.

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Then why do they have two horrendous Senators?
As always, DEMs are too stupid to realize how important Gov. Beshear is.
Governor since 2007, I could vote for him over Mrs. Clinton if I vote Democratic .

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Exactly, people put in alarms so they don't get robbed.
PRO 2nd amendmenter extremists need CCW and OC to feel safe from being murdered.
People would like to know that their water is safe.
We filter the water for our cats .

Lord Tammerlain said:

A large number of EPA regulations exist to prevent a problem from forming in the first place, the inspections are designed to ensure the polices are being followed.

Click to expand...

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

NIMBY said:

The Dem war on coal you speak of is far less than the GOP Corporate Polluters War on the good folks of WV and KY.

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It all depends where you live and what you do for a living. Those who do not make their living in coal or rely on the coal industry view it as you stated, the GOP corporate Polluters War. But to those put out of a job and those trying to keep their job it is the Democrats war on coal. The good folks of WV and Eastern KY do not look too fondly on those trying to take their living away from them. Things are not always black and white, right or wrong.

If you lost your job as a miner or worker for a coal company, who would you blame?

Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

Perotista said:

The Dems are costing that region their livelihood. Forcing people to lose their jobs is not a good way to get them to vote for you..

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Both female DEM contenders for Senator in KY and WV have their hands full with this issue on Coal jobs.
I just don't see either having a chance.
Now for that gal in Georgia.......