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Thread: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency declared

  1. #21
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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

    Why did the state, county and town governments allow the company to build their plant UPSTREAM of the local water treatment facility? The company couldn't find land downstream?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Interesting - just like Katrina and Sandy, right?
    Go ahead and make your false accusation so I can get to the business of refuting it.
    Trump Attacked A Syrian Airfield. Trump will be a one-term president.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You are the one who stated that a reduction in coal activity would cause this "pretty modern economy" to fall apart.
    No, I didn't claim it would fall apart - I said there's nothing wrong with a state and its citizens wishing to exploit a natural resource within its boundaries and I said that people need employment to survive. I was commenting against those whose immediate knee-jerk reaction to a chemical spill accident was to blame the coal industry. Those who want to shut down all industry and resource development for environmental reasons disregard the need for people to have gainful employment.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl


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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

    If the news is accurate, it's not that dangerous of chemical.

    Most people have little idea how much of our modern life and everything a person has is based upon chemicals. They are essential to our society and economy.

    Despite the highest of safeguards, like everything, things sometimes very unforeseeable and due to human's lack of absolute 100% pure perfect (unlike some on this forum claim to be and rage everyone else should too), accidents will happen, equipment will fail, and improbably sequences will occur.

    Due to what chemical it is, it's not that big a deal. There are many, many times more dangerous be traveled around us all the time. Chemicals are everywhere. This just isn't advertised.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

    Quote Originally Posted by AClockworkGrape View Post
    This is what happens when a single industry has a stranglehold on local government. I can't think of a single state dominated by any industry more than West Virginia is by big coal.

    It's so damn sad, I love the area and I have family that lives there, and Appalachia is one of the most beautiful environments in the United States. Whenever I visit you can tell that local residents know that Big Coal doesn't have them or their environments interests at their hearts but they are so reliant on coal mining they simply look the other way.

    Good point. Nevada, Illinois and Rhode Island have the highest unemployment. Most of the coal mines should be moved to those states.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Chemicals are everywhere. This just isn't advertised.
    Literally.

    O2, CO2, H2O, all are chemicals.

    I think part of the problem here is the use of the word "chemicals". One chemical you drink to stay alive and another, even in small amounts, causes catastrophic damage to wildlife because of how it move up the food chain.

    I think underestimating the potential danger of chemicals can be as bad as overestimating them. It is like that notion "everything causes cancer' that people who smoke three packs a day like to spout out, like their habit is no more dangerous for their health and mine than sitting out in the sun for 15 minutes.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

    My wife was in a business heavily involved in chemicals, including receiving, storing, processing and shipping them.

    There few incidents, but they were a few and no one ever hurt nor environmental damage. The government was not a positive force to avoid them or injuries by them, but I'll leave that topic alone as it causes those who want totalitarian government to rage away in their being good little government loyalists.

    Rather, there was an occasion when hundreds of smaller shipments of a fairly high up the scale hazardous liquid were bursting or leaking out of their containers. Fortunately, the business had not followed what the government recommends in safety containment. Rather, had gone vastly beyond it in terms of redundancy and thicken of containment materials in such an event. The source of that particular chemical was the most respected non-petroleum chemical manufacturer (and expensive) in the country - American manufactured (not Chinese import) but German owned - and the Germans are VERY meticulous on quality control.

    The American division insisted the problem had to be on her business' end. She knew it was not. But no one knew what was causing it. Her company disposed of all it's inventory (which was a lot),changed containers and ordered replacement chemical. Those too were swelling and leaking or bursting. The chemical supplier held it's ground - citing that they never had this problem and the quality was tested and certified by law by the US government itself.

    Finally, she contacted the German home office, who sent one of their experts. A careful investigation found the problem. In routine replacement of fittings on their huge regional storage tank, a galvanized safety valve on one safety pipe - that valve no larger than a person's hand, had been installed. Among the mass of piping and safe gear, it was not something anyone would spot. That meant the valve contained tin. The chemical is extremely reactive to tin. The slightest amount, microscopic level, causes the chemical to continuously decompose - releasing a gas that was causing the swelling in containers required to be completely sealed.

    That one small fitting had tainted over 100,000 gallons of chemical - seemingly impossible.

    The only spill she had was after a government inspector insisted that drums be moved a different way, refusing to understand that was a bad idea - and obviously so. A drum cannot fall to the ground if it never leaves the ground. But he cited regulations. It turns out the staff in the warehouse was right - or, more accurately - it determined that gravity does indeed exist.

    **** happens is a truism that can not be fully avoided.

    The folks, animals and plants in W Virginia are going to be ok.
    Last edited by joko104; 01-12-14 at 07:02 AM.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Literally.

    O2, CO2, H2O, all are chemicals.

    I think part of the problem here is the use of the word "chemicals". One chemical you drink to stay alive and another, even in small amounts, causes catastrophic damage to wildlife because of how it move up the food chain.

    I think underestimating the potential danger of chemicals can be as bad as overestimating them. It is like that notion "everything causes cancer' that people who smoke three packs a day like to spout out, like their habit is no more dangerous for their health and mine than sitting out in the sun for 15 minutes.

    Well, to quote Steve Martin,"EXCUSE ME!"

    For your sake, I will clarify: "refined and manufactured chemicals" are all around us and in our lives.

    The most harmful substance to move up the food chain, ie "biological magnification," is harmful forms of radiation, which is one of many reasons I intensely oppose nuclear power. Us, all humans and all land and water creatures will be drinking and eating radiation from Japan, just like we do for radiation from Russia. And every other nuclear power plant to a lesser degree. For thousands and thousands of years.
    Last edited by joko104; 01-12-14 at 07:07 AM.

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    Re: West Virginia chemical spill cuts water to up to 300,000, state of emergency decl

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The company most likely will declare bankruptcy and open up under new management within a few months
    That and reopen in India or Indonesia it's operation if possible. The civil liabilities is why DOW moved most its chemical refining and why China is such a popular spot for chemical manufacturing, refining and processing.

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