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Holder: Feds recognize Utah’s same-sex marriages[W:50]

AlabamaPaul said:
No, it's merely an opinion which you seem more than happy to repeat without being able to defend...
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so you dont have any facts that prove the facts of the OP wrong? Let me know when you do.
 
AGENT J said:
1.) correct its not a court case or a decision really its a clarification.
2.) I dont know about ANY youd have to be more specific. But these ones, YES currently

A.) Yes 100% for now
B.) not sure what you are asking here in states where no SSM marriages have been legally performed theres nothing to challenge in either direction.
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A) Based on what? Has their (Utah's) legal system declined the legality of SSM? Or it it still open for judicial review?

B) Yes, but that decision was at the federal level...so because it was based on "equal protection and equal treatment under the law" which are Constitutional...how can denial of SSM be legal in ANY state? (Tyranny of the majority over the minority....)
 
AGENT J said:
Holder: Feds recognize Utah's same-sex marriages | MSNBC




Back-up Links:
Federal government to recognize same-sex marriages in Utah | Fox News
Feds Recognize Same-Sex Couples in Utah - ABC News
Holder: Same-sex marriages in Utah legal under federal law - The Washington Post
Feds recognize same-sex couples in Utah - The Denver Post
Utah gay marriages will be recognized by federal government, attorney general says - U.S. News
Breaking: Obama administration will recognize same-sex marriages in Utah – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
Feds Say They Will Recognize Same-Sex Marriages Performed In Utah « CBS Sacramento

Seem to be some confusion on this not only here but nationally so here the breaking news to correct the misinformed and misinformation.

Some though the utah marriages were magically null and voided and that they were currently worthless and meaningless as you can see above this is factually false.
Whether more marriages can be done will be left to trail but currently all those marriages are legal and get FEDERALLY recognized and the state will also be recognizing them for any FEDERAL needs.

Hope this helps with the confusion.
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I wonder if Holder told the IRS that he did this.

Does this mean the same sex couples inUtah can file as married couples now?

Didn't he need to change rules and laws before he made this statement?

I thought the feds were not at the point where they were recognizing same sex marriages yet.
 
Lursa said:
A) Based on what? Has their (Utah's) legal system declined the legality of SSM? Or it it still open for judicial review?

B) Yes, but that decision was at the federal level...so because it was based on "equal protection and equal treatment under the law" which are Constitutional...how can denial of SSM be legal in ANY state? (Tyranny of the majority over the minority....)
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A.) no its still 100% open hence the trail they thier is only a stay for issuing new licences and deciding whether they will in the future. When the court cases doesn't go thier way which is my guess then UTAH will be granting equal rights again. But it also could go the other way.

B.) I agree with you in theory but since the ruling was very narrow in the other SCOTUS cases and the verbiage was how it was in the DOMA decision until its challenged thats just the way it is unfortunately. The best and awesome part to me is that one of the main things HELPING equal rights is all the BANNINGS, because they give clear footing for cases lol, sweet poetic justice.

I know logically it doesnt make sense and i agree but thats the way it is right now.
 
Mason66 said:
1.)I wonder if Holder told the IRS that he did this.

2.)Does this mean the same sex couples inUtah can file as married couples now?

3.) Didn't he need to change rules and laws before he made this statement?

4.) I thought the feds were not at the point where they were recognizing same sex marriages yet.
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1.) he didnt do anything, nor does the IRS need told they already have this policy in place and did so last year
2.) yes for now
3.) no
4.) this is also incorrect this happened with the fall of DOMA and then various IRS and other FEDs clarifying how the fall od DOMA effects them. Theres many threads here about it. The Fed recognizes all legal marriages. That happened last year.
 
Mr.Nick said:
I would love to know why the Feds believe they can just do whatever they want..... It's keen to the authoritarian policies of the former USSR (who I believe Holder, Obama, Reid and Pelosi absolutely adore)...

Holder belongs in prison on charges of tyranny.
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groan...
 
AGENT J said:
A.) no its still 100% open hence the trail they thier is only a stay for issuing new licences and deciding whether they will in the future. When the court cases doesn't go thier way which is my guess then UTAH will be granting equal rights again. But it also could go the other way.

B.) I agree with you in theory but since the ruling was very narrow in the other SCOTUS cases and the verbiage was how it was in the DOMA decision until its challenged thats just the way it is unfortunately. The best and awesome part to me is that one of the main things HELPING equal rights is all the BANNINGS, because they give clear footing for cases lol, sweet poetic justice.

I know logically it doesnt make sense and i agree but thats the way it is right now.
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OK thanks. I probably need to read more of US vs Windsor for context.
 
Utah to allow same sex married couples, even those married out of state, to file taxes jointly.

Utah state officials say newly married gay and lesbian couples can jointly file their taxes for 2013.

Tax commission spokesman Charlie Roberts said the ruling announced Thursday also pertains to same-sex couples legally married in other states.
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Utah Officials Allow Joint Tax Filing For Married Same-Sex Couples
 
AGENT J said:
Holder: Feds recognize Utah's same-sex marriages | MSNBC




Back-up Links:
Federal government to recognize same-sex marriages in Utah | Fox News
Feds Recognize Same-Sex Couples in Utah - ABC News
Holder: Same-sex marriages in Utah legal under federal law - The Washington Post
Feds recognize same-sex couples in Utah - The Denver Post
Utah gay marriages will be recognized by federal government, attorney general says - U.S. News
Breaking: Obama administration will recognize same-sex marriages in Utah – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
Feds Say They Will Recognize Same-Sex Marriages Performed In Utah « CBS Sacramento

Seem to be some confusion on this not only here but nationally so here the breaking news to correct the misinformed and misinformation.

Some though the utah marriages were magically null and voided and that they were currently worthless and meaningless as you can see above this is factually false.
Whether more marriages can be done will be left to trail but currently all those marriages are legal and get FEDERALLY recognized and the state will also be recognizing them for any FEDERAL needs.

Hope this helps with the confusion.
Click to expand...

SO do they recognize all the revoked drivers licenses in that state as well? What else can be simply overlooked just because some idiot name holder says so?
 
Rocketman said:
1.)SO do they recognize all the revoked drivers licenses in that state as well?
2.) What else can be simply overlooked just because some idiot name holder says so?
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1.) wow where do i start with such a failed argument
what does a drivers license have to do with a civil marriage contract? oh thats right nothing lol
what federal benefits, rights and legality come with a drivers licenses?
nothing has been revoked yet and theres no court cases that make the drivers license in limbo to the state
what drivers licences have been revoked for a persons sexual orientation

another completely failed strawman posted by you and facts destroy it again

2.) nothing was overlooked and holder simply followed the law and cleared it up for the people confused so your second strawman fails also
 
AGENT J said:
1.) wow where do i start with such a failed argument
what does a drivers license have to do with a civil marriage contract? oh thats right nothing lol
what federal benefits, rights and legality come with a drivers licenses?
nothing has been revoked yet and theres no court cases that make the drivers license in limbo to the state
what drivers licences have been revoked for a persons sexual orientation

another completely failed strawman posted by you and facts destroy it again

2.) nothing was overlooked and holder simply followed the law and cleared it up for the people confused so your second strawman fails also
Click to expand...

Driver's licenses are recognized state to state just like marriage contracts, so if a state make either invalid and is over-ruled by the FED then one can only assume that this would apply to any license issued by that state.
 
mr.nick said:
no they selectively followed the law...

When the law puts a damper on their plight they circumvent the law, but when it works in their favor they champion themselves as founding fathers....

These clowns are are real pieces of ****.....
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I AM RIGHT!
Capslocks are coming for all of you!!!1
 
Rocketman said:
1.)Driver's licenses are recognized state to state just like marriage contracts, so if a state make either invalid and is over-ruled by the FED then one can only assume that this would apply to any license issued by that state.
Click to expand...

ill ask again since you didnt answer
what does a drivers license have to do with a civil marriage contract? oh thats right nothing lol
what federal benefits, rights and legality come with a drivers licenses?
nothing has been revoked/ made invalid yet and theres no court cases that make the drivers license in limbo to the state
what drivers licences have been revoked for a persons sexual orientation
 
AGENT J said:
ill ask again since you didnt answer
what does a drivers license have to do with a civil marriage contract? oh thats right nothing lol
what federal benefits, rights and legality come with a drivers licenses?
nothing has been revoked/ made invalid yet and theres no court cases that make the drivers license in limbo to the state
what drivers licences have been revoked for a persons sexual orientation
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Both are state issued documents and according you Holder can over-ride any revoked document by that state. Please tell us you haven't state that.:lamo
 
Rocketman said:
Both are state issued documents and according you Holder can over-ride any revoked document by that state. Please tell us you haven't state that.:lamo
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nope :shrug:
translation: you cant answer the questions because the answers destroy your failed post, we get it.
Until you can answer the questions with facts you got nothing and there will be no reply until you do, I bet you never do.
 
Mr.Nick said:
I would love to know why the Feds believe they can just do whatever they want..... It's keen to the authoritarian policies of the former USSR (who I believe Holder, Obama, Reid and Pelosi absolutely adore)...

Holder belongs in prison on charges of tyranny.
Click to expand...

Mostly because for decade after decade after decade, we've allowed the to just do whatever they want.
 
Mr.Nick said:
I would love to know why the Feds believe they can just do whatever they want..... It's keen to the authoritarian policies of the former USSR (who I believe Holder, Obama, Reid and Pelosi absolutely adore)...

Holder belongs in prison on charges of tyranny.
Click to expand...

LOL....what kind of warped world do you live in where more freedom for the citizens = "authoritarian policies" similar to the former USSR? Wow.....just wow!
 
disneydude said:
LOL....what kind of warped world do you live in where more freedom for the citizens = "authoritarian policies" similar to the former USSR? Wow.....just wow!
Click to expand...

some how protecting equal, individual, human and civil rights is tyranny and authoritarian when you dont agree.

all these same failed arguments were made against women, minorities and interracial marriages, they all failed then and they all fail now.
 
AGENT J said:
nope :shrug:
translation: you cant answer the questions because the answers destroy your failed post, we get it.
Until you can answer the questions with facts you got nothing and there will be no reply until you do, I bet you never do.
Click to expand...

You can't defend you position or Holder's, it appears you failed again
 
Phys251 said:
Fourteenth and Ninth Amendments, son.
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The Fourteenth Amendment and your "equal protection clause" justifies just about everything up to the point of socialism.

Equal protection of the LAW.... Not equal protection.

Marriage is NOT a federal law, nor is it mentioned in the Constitution - therefore the Fourteenth Amendment is moot and so is the EPC.

The Nineteenth Amendment has to to with womans suffrage - so you have no point in that...

If anything the the Federal Government violated the Nineteenth Amendment with their Prop 8 stunt, not to mention the Tenth Amendment....
 
disneydude said:
LOL....what kind of warped world do you live in where more freedom for the citizens = "authoritarian policies" similar to the former USSR? Wow.....just wow!
Click to expand...

I don't live in a warped world - I live in a Democratic Republic and Constitutional United States - where representatives of the people vote for the people AND OR when direct democracy is a ballot initiative. This is not the land of non-democratically elected officials making public policy or a non-democratically elected judicial system ruling on democracy or overruling a democratic vote...

Hell, using your logic anarchy is "more free" so what's wrong with that?

Come to me with a real argument instead of stunted logic....
 
Mr.Nick said:
The Fourteenth Amendment and your "equal protection clause" justifies just about everything up to the point of socialism.

Equal protection of the LAW.... Not equal protection.

Marriage is NOT a federal law, nor is it mentioned in the Constitution - therefore the Fourteenth Amendment is moot and so is the EPC.

The Nineteenth Amendment has to to with womans suffrage - so you have no point in that...

If anything the the Federal Government violated the Nineteenth Amendment with their Prop 8 stunt, not to mention the Tenth Amendment....
Click to expand...

I said Ninth. Not Nineteenth. Learn to read.

I find it funny how you want to use a document designed to protect human rights, in order to suppress human rights.
 
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