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How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

Slyhunter said:
So instead we should do nothing except perhaps call them bad names. And the ones who are willing to blow up civilians automatically win every argument because we can't stop them without killing civilians.
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That's your defense for killing innocent people in drone attacks? At this rate for every terrorist killed, 3 are created. US foreign policy is the blame. We have no fears here. The "war on terror" is a farce and Sly, your going to die of a lightning strike, not a terrorist attack, the odds are greater, just sayin.
 
apdst said:
You don't go to war, to win hearts and minds. You go to war to beat the living **** out of the enemy and his supporters, to the point where they no longer have the will to resist. That strategy worked during WW2, on the Japanese and the Germans. After we go through them, they might have hated us, but they were too beat down to act on that hatred.

People don't like getting bombed? Then, they should stop allowing terrorists to live among them. If they won't do that, then I say bomb them even more, because they probably hated us anyway.
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... I'm not sure why anyone would expect the Afghans to change when every single moral lesson of the world wars is lost on the people alive today. And we aren't even committed to a tribal lifestyle.

Anyway, bombing Afgans to kill terrorists undermines the purpose of destroying the terrorists because it creates more terrorists by confirming their arguments about the evils of the West and their influence in the Middle East. We would have kill all of the Afghans, which would raise so many alarms in the region that further strategic partnerships would be impossible and accelerate the spread of terrorism there and elsewhere, not to mention undermining our alliances with everyone else. So we would have to kill the entire Middle East. But then Russia would have to act to protect its allies, so we would have thermonuclear war.
 
In the end, it may not be back to where we started, but we will be gone for the most part, and others will be in control, most likely China. Too many Afghanis believe we only came for other reasons to begin with, such as the mineral wealth, estimated to be at nearly 1 trillion dollars, and getting the heroin pipeline going again. Furthermore, more and more the insurgents battling the US are not religiously motivated, and are turning out to be highly educated Afghanis that even once fought the Taliban prior to our invasion.

BBC News - Afghans say US team found huge potential mineral wealth

Most insurgents in Afghanistan not religiously motivated, military reports say - The Boston Globe
 
Deuce said:
And, what, innocent people aren't killed every day here?

You think someone killing innocent people makes it ok for us to kill innocent people? You think there are any circumstances in which an innocent person is ok with an American bomb killing their innocent child?
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No, you made the clear suggestion that our use of violence was alienating the population there. The response was that these people are hardly delicate flowers that have never been exposed to such and that the argument is silly when considering the fact that the region has always dealt in violence rather liberally.

Sure you can get all frantic and start making moral appeals to what Americans should do now, but that was clearly not your original point and it's just a flagrant exercise in dishonesty
 
Morality Games said:
... I'm not sure why anyone would expect the Afghans to change when every single moral lesson of the world wars is lost on the people alive today. And we aren't even committed to a tribal lifestyle.

Anyway, bombing Afgans to kill terrorists undermines the purpose of destroying the terrorists because it creates more terrorists by confirming their arguments about the evils of the West and their influence in the Middle East. We would have kill all of the Afghans, which would raise so many alarms in the region that further strategic partnerships would be impossible and accelerate the spread of terrorism there and elsewhere, not to mention undermining our alliances with everyone else. So we would have to kill the entire Middle East. But then Russia would have to act to protect its allies, so we would have thermonuclear war.
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How do you suggest we deal with the problem, if not actually attacking insurgents?
 
Dibbler said:
How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.



entire article here:

How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.
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We already have won over hearts and minds in Afghanistan. Many Afghans are extremely appreciative of our efforts and do not want us to leave. The few extremists do not represent the entire country. They know we are not there to do evil. Ultimate success however will depend on the will of the people and what they want. We can not force them to accept our way of life, or to change theirs without them wanting to.
 
MichaelJR said:
The majority are savages, at best. You can't win the hearts of the heartless and the minds of the simpleton.
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I take it you have been to Afghanistan and talked to those that live there then?
 
Erod said:
You can not fix an inferior culture that does not respect the most basic human rights.

Might as well be trying to win the hearts and minds of a school of piranhas.
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What we consider basic rights, is not so in other countries. While we consider it wrong, their culture accepts it. Who are we to tell another country how it should and should not govern itself.
 
Cephus said:
I agree with what a lot of people have already said, you cannot win the hearts and minds of an inherently broken people. These are people who live in squalor, who do not understand or respect the most basic human rights, whose minds have been poisoned by religion and who are so committed to a tribal lifestyle that any concept of a centralized government necessary to lift them out of their disastrous lives is entirely foreign. These are people who cannot be reasoned with. Any attempt to force them to change is futile, they have to choose it for themselves and they lack the most basic of tools to make those decisions in the first place.
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All we can do is introduce them to a new way of life, but ultimately it is up to them and if they are happy how they are, then we have no choice but to accept it
 
It's easy.

Get out and leave them alone. Let them sort out their mess.

They will think far more highly of you right there.
 
Most of the local people over here have no concept of why we are here. We just need to leave.
 
Steve Ja said:
What we consider basic rights, is not so in other countries. While we consider it wrong, their culture accepts it. Who are we to tell another country how it should and should not govern itself.
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That's the precise question that many keep asking, yet we hear all the time that exporting democracy is our mission. It's arrogant, and quite impossible.
 
Steve Ja said:
All we can do is introduce them to a new way of life, but ultimately it is up to them and if they are happy how they are, then we have no choice but to accept it
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Where was that ever in the mission statement?? I thought we went into Afghanistan to root out and destroy the Taliban and or al Qaeda which our government assured us was responsible for our 9/11 attacks! What's this pie in the sky talk about introducing a new way of life? Sounds like a diplomatic mission or one you might dispatch the clergy for. Soldiers aren't sent to do that sort of thing. Soldiers are sent to kill people and destroy property. Which thing they have been doing quite well. Far more civilians have died in our thirteen years presence than Taliban/al Qaeda!! But hey, opium production is at an all time high under the US's protection!
 
Montecresto said:
That's the precise question that many keep asking, yet we hear all the time that exporting democracy is our mission. It's arrogant, and quite impossible.
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Our mission is to take care of America, or it should be
 
Montecresto said:
Where was that ever in the mission statement?? I thought we went into Afghanistan to root out and destroy the Taliban and or al Qaeda which our government assured us was responsible for our 9/11 attacks! What's this pie in the sky talk about introducing a new way of life? Sounds like a diplomatic mission or one you might dispatch the clergy for. Soldiers aren't sent to do that sort of thing. Soldiers are sent to kill people and destroy property. Which thing they have been doing quite well. Far more civilians have died in our thirteen years presence than Taliban/al Qaeda!! But hey, opium production is at an all time high under the US's protection!
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Didn't say anything about a military mission. I said we as in America.
 
Montecresto said:
Where was that ever in the mission statement?? I thought we went into Afghanistan to root out and destroy the Taliban and or al Qaeda which our government assured us was responsible for our 9/11 attacks! What's this pie in the sky talk about introducing a new way of life? Sounds like a diplomatic mission or one you might dispatch the clergy for. Soldiers aren't sent to do that sort of thing. Soldiers are sent to kill people and destroy property. Which thing they have been doing quite well. Far more civilians have died in our thirteen years presence than Taliban/al Qaeda!! But hey, opium production is at an all time high under the US's protection!
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also we work alongside Afghans ion our mission an d yes we do introduce our way of life to them. They see how we live and are treated. they see how we treat women. It is up to them whether they choose to adopt it for themselves, or not. They have picked up some American habits though
 
Steve Ja said:
Our mission is to take care of America, or it should be
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That's not happening very well last time I looked around. We are taking care of international corporations and their interests.
 
Steve Ja said:
Didn't say anything about a military mission. I said we as in America.
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Don't include me or other people you don't know in that. We have been failing in our domestic mission there are no assets to perform missions anywhere else.
 
Steve Ja said:
also we work alongside Afghans ion our mission an d yes we do introduce our way of life to them. They see how we live and are treated. they see how we treat women. It is up to them whether they choose to adopt it for themselves, or not. They have picked up some American habits though
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What American habits have they adopted? If there are any, as soon as we are gone, it will be irradiated.
 
Montecresto said:
Don't include me or other people you don't know in that. We have been failing in our domestic mission there are no assets to perform missions anywhere else.
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Wasn't even an argument point, you are making an argument out of nothing. Thx
 
Montecresto said:
What American habits have they adopted? If there are any, as soon as we are gone, it will be irradiated.
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Our culture is intertwining with theirs, like educating women, speaking english. Among others.
Possibly be eradicated when we leave, but who knows.
 
Steve Ja said:
Wasn't even an argument point, you are making an argument out of nothing. Thx
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You said our mission is to take care of America, this, in the context of our Afghanistan presence. Some of us doesn't equate the Afghanistan mission with taking care of America.
 
Steve Ja said:
Our culture is intertwining with theirs, like educating women, speaking english. Among others.
Possibly be eradicated when we leave, but who knows.
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Yes, well as I stated before, having our culture rubbing of on Afghanistan was never a part of the mission in late September 2001'. And it really is irrelevant to and a very unequal trade off for the great numbers of Afghanistan civilians killed during the period.
 
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