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Thread: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

  1. #171
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Although terrorism was only a minor component of Vietcong activities (as opposed to the Taliban), I'll concede that death squads are a form of terrorism.
    Concede? You can't concede a fact, only recognize it.

    If you think that terrorism was only a small part of the VC activities. I'll provide you some more cases.

    In March 1961 the VC blew up a bus/truck carrying 20 school girls then opened fired upon the survivors. Killing 2 girls and wounding another 10.
    In Feb 1962 VC threw grenades into a crowded movie theater near Can Tho, killing 108, 24 of them women and children.
    In Oct 1963, VC set off a IED on a passenger buses killing 18, wounding 23.
    In Feb 1965, VC blow up US barracks in Qui Nhon, killing 23.
    In Oct 1965, VC plant bombs at Cong Hoa National Sports Stadium, one goes off killing 11, wounding 42.
    In Dec 1965, VC blow up bomb in US base, killing 3 and wounding 172.
    On Dec 14th 1967, Sagion reports in 1 week 232 civilians are killed by VC terrorist acts.

    These are just a few of them randomly picked and not even based on time line.. the list is much much larger.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    However, making the link to death squads if anything shows you to be even more wrong - death squads and carpet bombing are forms of non-guerrilla terrorism that is almost entirely utilized by standard national militaries.
    Actually, it doesn't. As I've stated in a previous post about US's involvement in terrorism which is known as State Terrorism.. We run School of the Americas (known as WHINSEC) at Ft. Benning. Lot of famous dictators and "terrorist" US trained. Hell, the Phoenix Program during Vietnam is a prime example of it. That bold part was US's death squad program in Vietnam.

    The fact standing national armies do it doesn't make it not terrorism. It's still terrorism. It's still targeting civilians, by the very definition which is given by those who call the Taliban terrorist, those actions by national armies is terrorism.

    My point all along was there is no such thing as non-guerrilla acts, as in a Standing Army either acts ethically or doesn't. There is either conventional (two standing Armies shooting at each other) or unconventional (guerrilla warfare which includes terrorism). There is no gray. Only black and white. US Special Operations defines unconventional warfare as: consists of activities conducted to enable a resistance movement or insurgency to coerce, disrupt or overthrow an occupying power or government by operating through or with an underground, auxiliary and guerrilla force in a denied area.

    Taliban doesn't have an Air Force, Helicopters, hundreds of tanks, and UAVs. Their ability consists of fighting the way of the VC, IRA, ETA, FARC, or all those Balkan "Militias" did. To the Taliban this is conventional warfare. To us, it's a foreign concept.
    Last edited by austrianecon; 01-14-14 at 09:03 PM.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Are not ALL wars political?
    Well, you don't know the difference between a political war and a defensive war?



    Among the most important treaties is the UN Charter; a Treaty in Force under US law, enacted after two global wars that bind all nations to only defensive wars against other nations that have attacked. This simple rule, more simple than many rules in sports we master in understanding, does not include an attack upon a nation from allegations that a resident within a country initiated a terror attack. According to the leadership of the FBI and CIA, there was no evidence of Afghan government participation in the 9/11 attacks.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/afgh...efuse-and-stop
    Last edited by Montecresto; 01-14-14 at 09:14 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    The proliferation of illegal wars erodes American values!

    A genuinely pro-capitalist U.S. foreign policy would advance both the national and rational self-interest of Americans, which is: to live and flourish under authentic freedom, true justice, and the rule of law, with individual rights to life, liberty, and property protected by government against the initiation of force or fraud by hostile foreigners. To be clear, this does not mean fighting unjustified wars in Viet Nam, Iraq or Libya.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/richards...erican-values/
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    at their height of power the taliban was also exercising a rather clear monopoly on power in the relatively stable regions they controlled. So that is hardly surprising. I'm sure if we and the afghan national forces weren't fighting an active insurgency similar successes could be had.

    But other than that, what is your point?
    Only that heroin supply is up around the world since we intervened in the country. It had pretty much dried up before then.

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well, you don't know the difference between a political war and a defensive war?



    Among the most important treaties is the UN Charter; a Treaty in Force under US law, enacted after two global wars that bind all nations to only defensive wars against other nations that have attacked. This simple rule, more simple than many rules in sports we master in understanding, does not include an attack upon a nation from allegations that a resident within a country initiated a terror attack. According to the leadership of the FBI and CIA, there was no evidence of Afghan government participation in the 9/11 attacks.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/afgh...efuse-and-stop
    Even a defensive war is political in nature. Certainly one could end a war by diplomatic means, but the result would be unfavorable compared to killing and having killed numerous people. (Note that by word choice even a "morally correct" war can be made to look immoral).

    It strikes me that you have an issue with America. So you seek to define thugs that are not wars...as wars. Clandestine missions are not wars.
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