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Thread: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

  1. #131
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I don't think Afghan culture is backwards, radical Islam is backwards...

    Honestly, these non-radical simple living folk in Afghanistan hate the extremist Muslim faction just as much as we do, but at the same time they don't want us in their backyard.

    Once again radical Islam can be to blame for all this conflict over the past 1500 years.
    Right, radical Christianity is pretty backwards too. But we wouldn't want all Christianity Christianity characterised as such.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyhunter View Post
    There is a big difference between guerrilla warfare where they target the military and terrorism where they target civilians. It's the target that is important not the collateral damage.
    Boy there's just no end to it is there? How are we any different then the enemy we're fighting when we think the people we kill unintentionally by either hitting the wrong target or hitting a target next to grandmas house have no importance. That is the most calloused thing to say. I have some news for you. The 18,000 civilians in A-Stan that our military killed, and the hundreds of thousands of civilians in Iraq our military killed are just as important in life as you and I.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    So how many peacetime years did you see in that list. Or did you choose not to go to the link and look. Because you will find that there have been very few. And, with the exception of a couple of examples, the reason you and I can go about our lives with little sacrifice is because we usually wage war against much weaker nations that can be conquered with one hand tied behind our backs. But it hasn't prevented the macho pro-war crowd from crowing aloud in victory. As though there would be something for the 200 pound senior to brag about when he beat up the third grader.
    Are you actually arguing that the United States has been in a state of constant war on their own soil that long? You seem to admit it in this post. That you know that we haven't been fighting here. But then you think some link to some Internet source is relevant when trying to state that we haven't been living in a state of peace....in our country... since WW2.

    You are so quick to want to correct someone. I suggest you read an entire post before trying to correct a poster because you have a different point of view. You know as well as I that the mindset if the average citizen in these countries deals with death much differently. In part because the citizens of this country don't see war on a regular basis, and theirs have been seeing war since before the British Invasion. For centuries really.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Right, radical Christianity is pretty backwards too. But we wouldn't want all Christianity Christianity characterised as such.
    I don't know any radical Christians - I know many that define themselves by their Christian roots.....They're hardly militant to boot so...

    I suppose the problem is that Christians are NOT militant but Muslims are...

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyhunter View Post
    There is a big difference between guerrilla warfare where they target the military and terrorism where they target civilians. It's the target that is important not the collateral damage.
    And what you fail to get is Apdst supports carpet bombing which is the tactic of razing a city to the ground and targeting civilians. Think Dresden. That is no different then what "Terrorist" do.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    You present no proof, far from it, you deflect and claim because our President once saw the Muslim extremeists as the 'founding fathers' then but now we attack them as 'inferior' you don't have to address that...
    Yes, why would I need to defend the position and views of another person, especially when they have no relation to the point I was speaking to?

    Again you try and make this a us-them thing
    I'm not the one screaming about "cons" and demanding you account for the policy of Jimmy Carter ...

    I find an easy to read BOOK, not movie, to show you where we once slapped the backs of the religious extremists as honorable men. make up crap to try and scoff at it, it is typical CON deflection.
    1) Who denied we supported the Muhujadeen?

    2) I addressed your claim that soviet policy reflected afghan society. Soviet policy reflected policies among the PDPA, but that faced popular opposition among the Afghan population: <<<Paradoxically, the more dangerous threat to Afghan Monarchy came from the left, and it was the Afghan Marxists who, in turn, triggered the emergence of a powerful clerical opposition. The Marxists resort to violence in 1978 following their seizure of power in April provoked resistance led by Muslim leaders. From 1978 they challanged the polocies of the communists, who, like the Afghan modernist reformers of the 1920s, had made the transformation of the status of women a central part of their program of state intervention in Afghan society....For their part, women in kabul and elswhere joined the resistence; in places like Kabul many adopted the veil as a symbol of their opposition to the new govt.>>>

    The Taliban and the Crisis of Afghanistan, pg 36-37

    fact is you skip right over where the Aghanis had a fairly moderate government until the Soviets invaded to concentrate on the religious extremists WE helped put into power.
    Yes, the PDPA, a party that gained poer through an armed coup, was moderate in their views of women. But such wasn't reflected in the rest of Afghani society, and opposition to those policies, even among women, are what fueled the armed resistance to the PDPA.

    You twist the point I make on the dad killing a rapist. It is a matter of degree, you refuse to accept that and just try and make this them brutal, us noble civilized.
    No, there is really nothing analogous about killing a rape victim to killing the person who committed the rape. The thought processed behind those two actions are completely different


    To many our society is decadent, pornographic, corrupt, and many outside the beltway, just like outside Kabul, have little respect for the central government.
    So pornography is akin to stoning a woman to death for engaging in adultery?


    But all of this is a CON deflection- the point is and will remain, it isn't their 'inferior' culture but their desire to resists anything the decadent and corrupt West attempts to foist off on them.
    No, your original post attempted to defend barbaric cultural practices by appealing to some inescapable aspect of their nature

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062785045


    Now the stoning thing you cling to- once we thought nothing of killing a black man for whistling at a white girl.
    Right, "once". But we changed that. Do you not understand the difference between the terms "past" and "present", and the importance of changing how such things are viewed in a modern context?

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's also a crime.
    Can't criminalize a tactic. Sorry, it's a failed policy.


    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Oh! My bad! You're an American that hates America, not an Austrian that hates America.
    Actually, I don't hate United States of America (there are other Americas then the US), love it very much, it's just not my cup of coffee when it comes to foreign policy and politically. Both sides are full of **** and sheeple lap it up. Case in point, most think we are fight to protect the US and her citizens when in reality we are fighting for resource contracts.


    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They were combat multipliers and performed a very small role in the overall war.
    Go back and read US history again. Then come talk to me. The 13 colonies were getting it's ass handed to them by the British. It was those guerrilla tactics in the south that was keeping Cornwallis from advancing to crush Washington.



    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I bet you left out some very important facts in that one...LOL!!! Ever hear of the '48 War? 6-Day War? Yom Kippur War? Those were all conventional engagements.
    And? I am speaking for the British Mandate of Palestine which Zionist groups fought the British from 1939-1946. It was a result of this, Israel became a state. If British could have maintained control, Israel wouldn't be a State right now. So learn some history.


    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Guerilla tactics don't decide wars. Never have and never will.
    Republic of Ireland, Mexico, Afghanistan, and Algeria would disagree with you. Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck who held of the Allies during WW1 in East Africa. So would Sun Tzu. But hey.. what do I know.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

  8. #138
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Are you actually arguing that the United States has been in a state of constant war on their own soil that long? You seem to admit it in this post. That you know that we haven't been fighting here. But then you think some link to some Internet source is relevant when trying to state that we haven't been living in a state of peace....in our country... since WW2.

    You are so quick to want to correct someone. I suggest you read an entire post before trying to correct a poster because you have a different point of view. You know as well as I that the mindset if the average citizen in these countries deals with death much differently. In part because the citizens of this country don't see war on a regular basis, and theirs have been seeing war since before the British Invasion. For centuries really.
    What do you mean, "some Internet source"? The Wiki source not credible enough for you, I can provide others. The point that your not being able to disprove, is that the US has been at war in some form or fashion, more years than its been at peace. You cannot consider that a peaceful nation. And no, of course I don't mean on our soil, that's a rarity, and truly defensive wars. The vast majority of the wars we've been in have been off soil wars of aggression and not defensive at all.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #139
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I don't know any radical Christians - I know many that define themselves by their Christian roots.....They're hardly militant to boot so...

    I suppose the problem is that Christians are NOT militant but Muslims are...
    That's a very uneducated statement for you to make. First, just because you don't know any radical Christians Nick doesn't mean they don't exist. And secondly to throw a blanket statement on the Muslim religion is very bigoted.

    Christian terrorism comprises terrorist acts by groups or individuals who claim Christian motivations or goals for their actions. As with other forms of religious terrorism, Christian terrorists have relied on idiosyncratic or literal interpretations of the tenets of faith – in this case, the Bible. Such groups have cited Old Testament and New Testament scriptures to justify violence and killing or to seek to bring about the "end times" described in the New Testament.[1]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism



    Christian radicalism (radical Christianity or radical discipleship) encompasses a number of different movements and actions in practical theology.[1] It entails a radical re-orientation towards the root truths of Christian discipleship through personal reflection and action.[2]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_radicalism
    Last edited by Montecresto; 01-12-14 at 09:00 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #140
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I have been talking about it.
    A concise argument that takes the form of two or three logical statements.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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