Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 175

Thread: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

  1. #121
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,592

    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    And I have absolutely no problem with terrorism. Did you fail to understand that? It's a tactic.
    It's also a crime.


    No, they aren't.. they are the same thing. The point of guerrilla warfare is to strike terror into the "enemy". Terrorism is the same thing. The whole point of both is to make one feel terror.
    You're wrong.



    Yes, we do. We run School of the Americas (known as WHINSEC) at Ft. Benning. Lot of famous dictators and "terrorist" US trained. Groups (including Delta) routinely trained during the 70's, 80's and 90's in Colombia and other South American countries. Hell, the Phoenix Program during Vietnam is a prime example of it. I never said they win wars. I said they trained and committed acts of terrorism, which they have.
    A prime example of a combat multiplier, as I pointed out earlier.






    Dude, you just proved my point. Austrianecon is Austrian Economics. I don't live in Austria and I am actually a US citizen. So try harder.
    Oh! My bad! You're an American that hates America, not an Austrian that hates America.




    LMFAO. Francis Marion, David Wooster, William Richardson, and Daniel Morgan. The kept the British busy in the South so Washington could move in the North. Hell, American tactics during the war was to to send the militia out to harass the British for periods and once the British were stretched, on then conventional attacks would happen.
    They were combat multipliers and performed a very small role in the overall war.

    Small part for Israel? Israelis groups such as Lehi, Haganah and Irgun bombed buildings, sent mail bombs, massacred Muslims and did everything the IRA still does. Hell, Lehi even offered Nazi Germany support if they ousted the British from Palestine. Israel exists because the British got fed up with fighting two sides.
    I bet you left out some very important facts in that one...LOL!!! Ever hear of the '48 War? 6-Day War? Yom Kippur War? Those were all conventional engagements.

    Guerilla tactics don't decide wars. Never have and never will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #122
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,592

    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Well, then start talking about it. I'm still not entirely clear on what your argument is.
    I have been talking about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #123
    Educator
    Slyhunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    06-22-15 @ 03:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,041

    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    I am not defending anyone.. Just pointing out the blaring hypocrisy of Americans attitudes to terrorism. You hate the Afghans but you won't hate yourself for the decades of supporting terrorist.

    Terrorism is another word for Guerrilla warfare. Its tactic in which is useful when outnumbered or highly out powered. So much so we train our best of our best in this ability. Then we send our best of our best to foreign countries to train others be it NGOs or States. Fact of the matter is Americans love terrorism, they are just too stupid to realize it. You love the United States? Well, it's around because it used Guerrilla warfare/terror tactics against the British. You love Israel? Well.. google the King David Hotel bombing or Deir Yassin massacre. The group responsible became the Likud party.

    So, let's carpet bomb the US, Israel with everyone else.. as we support ourselves and each other.
    There is a big difference between guerrilla warfare where they target the military and terrorism where they target civilians. It's the target that is important not the collateral damage.
    Islam is an antiquated religion and needs to either modernize with the times or be completely eradicated.
    There are two types of Muslims, terrorists, and their enablers. They need to fix that if they want to be part of civilized society.

  4. #124
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    By that logic, I take it you would also justify Japan attacking Pearl Harbor. The, 'It's all Amerca's fault', meme lost it's luster a long time ago. It's absolitely disgusting to insist that America is to blame for 3,000 Americans being murdered. It's a display of the ignorance of history and the Islamofacist agenda.
    We committed the first act of war with Japan. Whether or not they were justified in attacking us at Pearl Harbour was a decision to be made in Tokyo. As to why men from the Middle East are inclined to reach out at western targets with violence has been addressed and answered by many. Men like Jonathan Turley, Noam Chomsky, Ron Paul and far many more. The problem is that it makes people feel better about themselves if they believe that we are the righteous guys, going about our lives and minding our business and mean bad people reached out and punched us in the nose for no reason at all. Or the Bush classic, they hate us for our values. I know you can't hear it but I'm LMAO.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #125
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    So. How many of those did our entire society have to revolve around war? In this last and most recent conflict...did the average citizen sacrifice anything? Did we have war on our doorstep? No.

    You can say we are aggressive and imperial (a joke if you consider any historical context). But you can't claim we are a society of war. Our society hasn't faced war at home since WW2. And that was limited to outlying regions and fear of submarine attack. Prior to that it would have been the civil war.

    Don't disservice the plight of the Afghan people by comparing their civilization of perpetual war since before the British...to that of an obese democracy that goes to other places to fight their wars.
    So how many peacetime years did you see in that list. Or did you choose not to go to the link and look. Because you will find that there have been very few. And, with the exception of a couple of examples, the reason you and I can go about our lives with little sacrifice is because we usually wage war against much weaker nations that can be conquered with one hand tied behind our backs. But it hasn't prevented the macho pro-war crowd from crowing aloud in victory. As though there would be something for the 200 pound senior to brag about when he beat up the third grader.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #126
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    A post about Iraq is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

    There were 3,527 American KIA's in Iraq. Why do you keep lieing about the numbers?


    Look at post 75 and it will all come back to you. As to the Iraqi war KIA:

    For troops in the U.S.-led multinational coalition, the death toll is carefully tracked and updated daily, and the names and photographs of those killed in action as well as in accidents have been published widely. A total of 4,486 U.S. soldiers were killed in Iraq between 2003 and 2012.[14] Regarding the Iraqis, however, information on both military and civilian casualties is both less precise and less consistent. Estimates of casualty levels are available from reporters on the scene, from officials of involved organizations, and from groups that summarize information on incidents reported in the news media.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #127
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Nazis felt their cause was justified. Are you going to defemd them, as well?
    Your finally getting the point. Everyone thinks when they go to war it's justified. It makes a real good reason for being anti-war!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #128
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    I love terrorism. It's a fantastic tactic the US taught and exported to the rest of the world.

    "As many critics have pointed, out, terrorism is not an enemy. It is a tactic. Because the United States itself has a long record of supporting terrorists and using terrorist tactics, the slogans of today's war on terrorism merely makes the United States look hypocritical to the rest of the world." - General William Odom, NSA Director under Reagan.
    A great find that will make the pro-war crowds eyes glass over. It will largely go ignored.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  9. #129
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 11:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyhunter View Post
    Islam is the enemy of all people who are not followers of Islam.
    You failed to respond to Gen. Odom's statement?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #130
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    okla-freakin-homa
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,635

    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I directly addressed numerous aspects of your rant, pointing out it was based on faulty assumptions and various other logical fallacies What does that have to do with the point about backwards Afghan cultural practices and your attempt to defend and justify them? Right, nothing 1) Don't get your history from a movie. The truth is, outside urban centers there was very little support for a powerful centralized govt and a reistence formed organically long before any involvement from Washington 2) Why would I need to answer for or justify what Ronald Reagan said and did? Especially in the context of you trying to justify brutal cultural behaviors by appealing to some form of perceived ingrained and inescapable expression of nature? No, any culture that thinks it's cool to stone a rape victim to death is indeed inferior on the point of women's rights, to cultures that do not behave in such a manner. Yes, because short of isolated pockets that we would attempt to address through higher state authority, such is clearly viewed as unacceptable in a modern context. Which means we have moved on and corrected that inferior behavior Wait, so a dad killing his daughters rapist is analogous to killing his daughter for being raped? Again, you should really think these things through Yes, if you mean assuming that brown people can overcome historical cultural trappings, like anyone else. I am indeed guilty
    You present no proof, far from it, you deflect and claim because our President once saw the Muslim extremeists as the 'founding fathers' then but now we attack them as 'inferior' you don't have to address that...

    Again you try and make this a us-them thing- which you at first claim is not the proper metric... i defend nothing the 'freedom fighters' did or as the same gangs are now called 'terrorists'. I find an easy to read BOOK, not movie, to show you where we once slapped the backs of the religious extremists as honorable men. make up crap to try and scoff at it, it is typical CON deflection.

    fact is you skip right over where the Aghanis had a fairly moderate government until the Soviets invaded to concentrate on the religious extremists WE helped put into power.

    You twist the point I make on the dad killing a rapist. It is a matter of degree, you refuse to accept that and just try and make this them brutal, us noble civilized.

    To many our society is decadent, pornographic, corrupt, and many outside the beltway, just like outside Kabul, have little respect for the central government.

    But all of this is a CON deflection- the point is and will remain, it isn't their 'inferior' culture but their desire to resists anything the decadent and corrupt West attempts to foist off on them.

    Now the stoning thing you cling to- once we thought nothing of killing a black man for whistling at a white girl. Acquit men who murder 'freedom riders', and restrict the voting rights of fellow Americans. All not part of some ancient past but within my own lifetime. If the reactionary Taliban is seen as barbaric then they are only 50 years behind us. They focus on gender, we focused on race.

    I NEVER condoned stoning a rape victim, but how many CONS love the idea of cutting the hand off a thief? Or the penis of a rapist? Again it is a matter of degree you refuse to admit exists. We don't condone cold blooded murder but we do give a great deal of leeway to a father killing in cold blood a man he thinks raped his daughter. We have a new defense- affluensa for poor richie rich types. You see the Islamic extremists as barbaric, but refuse to consider the average Afghani, who this is about, sees Western Society as barbaric/corrupt/decadent.

    We don't offer an acceptable alternative, we refuse to understand forcing a society to change overnite is hardly a smooth move.

    The discussion hinged on a CON claiming the 'inferior culture' is unable to give their hearts and minds to a Pro-western acceptable governance and cultural morals set.

    My point is as long as the 'white man's burden' mindset is continued we will be as unsuccessful as ever.

Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •