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Thread: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

  1. #101
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    You seem intent on offering no refute, just your opinion.
    I directly addressed numerous aspects of your rant, pointing out it was based on faulty assumptions and various other logical fallacies

    The Soviets did promote the concept of women to be educated, part of the work force and government.
    And? What does that have to do with the point about backwards Afghan cultural practices and your attempt to defend and justify them? Right, nothing


    They did insist on the end of religious rule in courts and government. St. Reagan did refer to the 'freedom fighters' many well known to be extreme religious warriors, as the Aghan Founding fathers. The CON praisees are in the book CONs love to trump- "Charlie Wilson's War'.
    1) Don't get your history from a movie. The truth is, outside urban centers there was very little support for a powerful centralized govt and a reistence formed organically long before any involvement from Washington

    2) Why would I need to answer for or justify what Ronald Reagan said and did? Especially in the context of you trying to justify brutal cultural behaviors by appealing to some form of perceived ingrained and inescapable expression of nature?


    The us vs them metric is the CON template for everything... they don't act or think like we do so they are inferior.
    No, any culture that thinks it's cool to stone a rape victim to death is indeed inferior on the point of women's rights, to cultures that do not behave in such a manner.

    Why would you see such a statement as controversial?

    No Sir, it is a matter of degree, we accept the honor killings in this country, the forced marriages, the violence because we have a law against it.
    That doesn't even make sense


    That sometimes these laws are ignored such as the KKK murders of 'uppity' blacks or 'meddlesome' yankees is shrugged off as 'the past'.
    Yes, because short of isolated pockets that we would attempt to address through higher state authority, such is clearly viewed as unacceptable in a modern context. Which means we have moved on and corrected that inferior behavior


    While we don't let a dad go scot-free for killing the rapist who defiled his daughter,(many CONS would do just that), we do allow mitigation and tend to not judge the dad as a cold blooded murderer.
    Wait, so a dad killing his daughters rapist is analogous to killing his daughter for being raped?

    Again, you should really think these things through


    But you continue down the 'white man's folly' road. You blame the 'inferior' culture for our failures, rather than our own hubris and folly
    Yes, if you mean assuming that brown people can overcome historical cultural trappings, like anyone else. I am indeed guilty
    Last edited by Dr. Chuckles; 01-12-14 at 03:40 PM.

  2. #102
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Nazis felt their cause was justified. Are you going to defemd them, as well?
    I am not defending anyone.. Just pointing out the blaring hypocrisy of Americans attitudes to terrorism. You hate the Afghans but you won't hate yourself for the decades of supporting terrorist.

    Terrorism is another word for Guerrilla warfare. Its tactic in which is useful when outnumbered or highly out powered. So much so we train our best of our best in this ability. Then we send our best of our best to foreign countries to train others be it NGOs or States. Fact of the matter is Americans love terrorism, they are just too stupid to realize it. You love the United States? Well, it's around because it used Guerrilla warfare/terror tactics against the British. You love Israel? Well.. google the King David Hotel bombing or Deir Yassin massacre. The group responsible became the Likud party.

    So, let's carpet bomb the US, Israel with everyone else.. as we support ourselves and each other.
    Last edited by austrianecon; 01-12-14 at 03:52 PM.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

  3. #103
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I directly addressed numerous aspects of your rant, pointing out it was based on faulty assumptions and various other logical fallacies



    And? What does that have to do with the point about backwards Afghan cultural practices and your attempt to defend and justify them? Right, nothing




    1) Don't get your history from a movie. The truth is, outside urban centers there was very little support for a powerful centralized govt and a reistence formed organically long before any involvement from Washington

    2) Why would I need to answer for or justify what Ronald Reagan said and did? Especially in the context of you trying to justify brutal cultural behaviors by appealing to some form of perceived ingrained and inescapable expression of nature?




    No, any culture that thinks it's cool to stone a rape victim to death is indeed inferior on the point of women's rights, to cultures that do not behave in such a manner.

    Why would you see such a statement as controversial?



    That doesn't even make sense




    Yes, because short of isolated pockets that we would attempt to address through higher state authority, such is clearly viewed as unacceptable in a modern context.

    If the distinction that creates to acceptance in a modern and mainstream context confuses you, I suggest you familiarize yourself with the term "genetic fallacy". But it should be self evident



    Wait, so a dad killing his daughters rapist is analogous to killing his daughter for being raped?

    Again, you should really think these things through




    Yes, if you mean assuming that brown people can overcome historical cultural trappings, like anyone else. I am indeed guilty
    I don't think Afghan culture is backwards, radical Islam is backwards...

    Honestly, these non-radical simple living folk in Afghanistan hate the extremist Muslim faction just as much as we do, but at the same time they don't want us in their backyard.

    Once again radical Islam can be to blame for all this conflict over the past 1500 years.

  4. #104
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    And you always use the sad worn out CON game- where did I 'defend' any of the crap you rant about? typical CON deflection.

    Fact is CONs could give a flying flip about ANY of that- it is just an excuse to degrade another culture that refuses to accept outsider interference. Did we go into the Middle or South East to 'defend' women's rights???

    the 'inferior' culture was quite progressive until Westerners tried the latest go-round of 'civilizing' Afghanistan. the forced attempt to push 'equal rights' for women and the abolishing of religious laws by the Soviet created a backlash we are fighting today. back when these religious kooks fought the Soviets they were likened to our Founding Fathers by no less than St. Reagan. now of course they are in power and degraded as 'inferior'.

    If you want to talk about FMG let's talk about our allies, the ones we embrace as 'good' Muslims. The Kurds in Iraq practice FGM and we don't trash them as 'inferior'. Honor killings??? Hell we do that here, and have you ever heard the term 'shotgun' marriage? You argue in degrees and with blinders firmly on.

    I do enjoy some CONs 'defending' women while some others demand THEY get to decide many female reproductive issues.

    Embrace the woman's rights to work in other nations but hold a nomination convention where that Right wing is mute and CON women are saluted for raising kids.

    No Sir, what we don't like about their society is based on our rather capricious standards. We see their faults quite clearly but seem to ignore our own, from free and easy drugs to incredible rates of unwed teen moms, a culture that puts sex scandal women on a pedestal-make a sex tape and be famous. We attack their forms of government as corrupt but can we really look at our governments and power brokers in any better light?

    What matters isn't their culture, as we have lost the hearts and minds of so many different cultures. No Sir, it is first and foremost does that culture even want our 'help', do they have a history of accepting such 'help'. Next is do we understand sometimes there is no 'good guy' to back, and all we or the Soviets did was stir the pot.

    As long as we continue to make excuses for why we don't prevail and blame 'their culture' instead of our folly we are destined to repeat this hot mess over and over.

    Accuse me of defending female mutilations, what a CON strawman....
    I am not one of these mythical "cons" you rail against so thoughtlessly, so spare me, please.


    Any actual liberal (of which you are most obviously NOT) realizes the deplorable state of women in Afghanistan and does not blame us for their culture. I cannot believe the utter stupidity of a statement that tries to portray their culture as "progressive" before we intervened there. Really, that is so far beyond the pale as to be the stuff of intentional parody it is that incredibly stupid.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  5. #105
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyhunter View Post
    Islam is the enemy of all people who are not followers of Islam.
    Islam is not the enemy of me. I fear the man despite his religion who has nothing to lose. That means be it a Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, and Orthodox man is only dangerous when they feel they have nothing to lose. That's what makes them dangerous.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I am not one of these mythical "cons" you rail against so thoughtlessly, so spare me, please.


    Any actual liberal (of which you are most obviously NOT) realizes the deplorable state of women in Afghanistan and does not blame us for their culture. I cannot believe the utter stupidity of a statement that tries to portray their culture as "progressive" before we intervened there. Really, that is so far beyond the pale as to be the stuff of intentional parody it is that incredibly stupid.
    Deplorable state of woman in Afghanistan?

    Sure Afghanistan isn't up to par with womans rights but they are far from the worst. Saudi Arabia, Egypt (hell, many countries in Africa), Iraq (or just about any nation where Islam is the face of the nation) are worse.

    Go read about the school bus problem in Saudi Arabia - they can't get girls to school because woman cant drive, and men and woman have to be segregated - therefore little girls cant get to school.

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Islam is not the enemy of me. I fear the man despite his religion who has nothing to lose. That means be it a Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, and Orthodox man is only dangerous when they feel they have nothing to lose. That's what makes them dangerous.
    Radical Islam should be the enemy to you.

    The problem with Islam is that many nations are into Sharia theocracies...... Imagine if the US became an evangelical Christian theocracy? I wouldn't want that and I'm a practicing Christian.

  8. #108
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Radical Islam should be the enemy to you.

    The problem with Islam is that many nations are into Sharia theocracies...... Imagine if the US became an evangelical Christian theocracy? I wouldn't want that and I'm a practicing Christian.
    Radical Islam is not my problem. Is it in the US? Nope. Will it ever be? Nope. So it's number 1,000,000,000,000 on my list of worries. Countries with Islam as their religion, that's their problem not mine or yours.

    US isn't evangelical Christan theocracy..yet. But 30% or so want Christianity as the official religion. So maybe that's what we should be worried about and not the Radical Islam bunch who are light years away from any political power in the US.
    Last edited by austrianecon; 01-12-14 at 04:10 PM.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Radical Islam is not my problem. Is it in the US? Nope. Will it ever be? Nope. So it's number 1,000,000,000,000 on my list of worries. Countries with Islam as their religion, that's their problem not mine or yours.

    US isn't evangelical Christan theocracy..yet. But 30% or so want Christianity as the official religion. So maybe that's what we should be worried about and not the Radical Islam bunch who light years away from any political power in the US.
    I don't give a **** if 30% want it as an "official religion" considering that only violates the First Amendment. Not only that but I HIGHLY doubt those numbers considering they come from the lying POS HUFFO.

    Also, you better believe radical Islam is in our backyard.... Most of the idiots who plot these Islamic attacks on the US ARE US BORN ISLAMIC RADICALS.....

    Not only that but we have "honor killings" here in the US - I know the progressive media has no desire to report them but they happen way more frequently than what is reported by the media.

  10. #110
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    Re: How hard is it to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan? Very hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    [b]I am not defending anyone.. Just pointing out the blaring hypocrisy of Americans attitudes to terrorism. You hate the Afghans but you won't hate yourself for the decades of supporting terrorist.
    You're defending terrorism, right there; or at least, justifying it.

    Terrorism is another word for Guerrilla warfare.
    Terrorism and guerilla warfare are different. Terrorism, is sometimes a component of guerilla warfare, however.

    Its tactic in which is useful when outnumbered or highly out powered. So much so we train our best of our best in this ability. Then we send our best of our best to foreign countries to train others be it NGOs or States.
    No, we don't train NGO's, nor states in guerilla warfare. We train our special operations units in guerilla warfare, so we can counter guerillas that we're engaged with and to harass conventional enemy forces. Those special operations units are combat multipliers; they don't win the war.


    Fact of the matter is Americans love terrorism, they are just too stupid to realize it.
    Ahh! I wondered when the America hatin' would show up.

    BTW, you're welcome for not living under a Nazi dictatorship. But, then that may not be so good, since the Austrians welcomed the Nazis with open arms.


    You love the United States? Well, it's around because it used Guerrilla warfare/terror tactics against the British. You love Israel? Well.. google the King David Hotel bombing or Deir Yassin massacre. The group responsible became the Likud party.
    Actually, you're wrong. The Colonials defeated the Brits with conventional tactics and strategy. Guerilla warfare played a very small part of the The American Revolution. The same can be said for Israel.

    So, let's carpet bomb the US, Israel with everyone else.. as we support ourselves and each other.
    The United States has produced the best and brightest soldiers in the history of the world. Austria wouldn't last a week. Might be a worthwhile venture, since there are probably plenty of ex-Nazis in Austria that need killin'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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