Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109:573]

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Somerville said:

Christie's problems continue to grow

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At the very least it appears to me as if part of his staff intentionally did not inform him about something which seems childishly vindictive that they did on his behalf.

At worst he told them too do it and now is letting them take the blame.

Then again, better he realizes he needs to watch his staff a bit more now, than if/when he is elected president.

Looking on the bright side....:lamo

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

j-mac said:

Well, you are welcome to your opinion, however, I believe that he was telling the truth yesterday....But, by all means keep up the pointless attack over your made up scandal....Hey, maybe tomorrow some other Repub Governor will have some potholes filled causing traffic to slow, and you can attack them as some huge conspiracy....In the mean time your main man Obama is doing real damage to the country.

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You know I am beginning to believe Christie is telling the truth but I also am intelligent enough to know he has a vested interest in excluding himself from any involvement.

Are the Democrats jumping on this ? Damn straight they are and if this was a Democrat you know the Republicans would be doing a happy dance. And that is done in this forum too. When the posters here read a politician was caught raping a girl scout the first thing they do is to see if he has a R or D next to his name. Then minutes later they might read the article to see if the girl scout was okay.

But I have to believe this is not a made up scandal. Of course thousands didn't lose their lives in this shutdown so many question why the uproar. I just have to remind them of the threads about the IPad that Obama gave to the Queen of England.

More than anything it truly shows the true nature of these political appointees where they would really give a damn about the American people as their party is the only thing that matters.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

j-mac said:

Well, you are welcome to your opinion, however, I believe that he was telling the truth yesterday....

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Ok. Lets accept your increasingly unlikely premise that Christie knew nothing of this and honestly believed he needed a traffic study to tell him that closing all but one lane on a major thoroughfare would result in an increase in traffic in the remaining lane. That makes him a moron. So, which is it, is he one of the most corrupt lowlife politicians in history or almost too stupid to exist/has zero critical thinking skills? Either way, he is unfit to govern.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Napoleon said:

Ok. Lets accept your increasingly unlikely premise that Christie knew nothing of this and honestly believed he needed a traffic study to tell him that closing all but one lane on a major thoroughfare would result in an increase in traffic in the remaining lane. That makes him a moron. So, which is it, is he one of the most corrupt lowlife politicians in history or almost too stupid to exist/has zero critical thinking skills? Either way, he is unfit to govern.

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He will make a fine President.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Napoleon said:

Ok. Lets accept your increasingly unlikely premise that Christie knew nothing of this and honestly believed he needed a traffic study to tell him that closing all but one lane on a major thoroughfare would result in an increase in traffic in the remaining lane. That makes him a moron. So, which is it, is he one of the most corrupt lowlife politicians in history or almost too stupid to exist/has zero critical thinking skills? Either way, he is unfit to govern.

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Otherwise you were prepared to vote for him, huh?

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Somerville said:

You saying it, don't make it so. A bit more from the radical left wing Wall Street Journal, 12 Dec 2013

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That would strongly suggest that CHristie did not know the reason for the traffic jams.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

sangha said:

What a dodge!!

I didn't ask if you believed what he said. I asked you about how, if his mythical investigation actually looked at the emails, they could have looked at "time for Ft Lee to have some traffic problems" and not realize it was proof of his aides guilt?

Instead of backing up your lie that Christie investigated the issue, or that he had anyone look at the emails, you're trying to pretend this is about Obama - proof that even you know your claims are BS.

So go ahead and run away from your claim that Gov Christie launched an investigation - we all know why you won't defend your BS

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He said he knew nothing of it. When he heard about it he took action. I suspect that meant looking at the e-mails, or having someone do so. He then fired someone and answered questions.

What is it you don't understand about that? And given a similar circumstance what did Obama do? Who'd he fire? No one.

So, you want to talk about lies, look to the wh before you start casting stones buddy.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

j-mac said:

He said he knew nothing of it. When he heard about it he took action. I suspect that meant looking at the e-mails, or having someone do so. He then fired someone and answered questions.

What is it you don't understand about that? And given a similar circumstance what did Obama do? Who'd he fire? No one.

So, you want to talk about lies, look to the wh before you start casting stones buddy.

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What I don't understand (because you refuse to explain) is how those people you believe Christie had look at the emails could read the one that said "Time for Ft Lee to have some traffic problems" and not realize it was evidence of a conspiracy by Christie's aides, and not tell Christie about it.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

j-mac said:

He said he knew nothing of it. When he heard about it he took action. I suspect that meant looking at the e-mails, or having someone do so. He then fired someone and answered questions.
What is it you don't understand about that? And given a similar circumstance what did Obama do? Who'd he fire? No one.
So, you want to talk about lies, look to the wh before you start casting stones buddy.

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This is based on Christie's ignorance..or possibly even malevolence. Obama is not in this situation, so don't bring him up.
Really, Christie has it both heads and tails. Either he's incompetent and doesn't know what his top aids(who have been with him for many years) are doing, or he's pretty much a criminal.
Again, bringing up Obama is 354.93% intellectually dishonest.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Perotista said:

That is the way it is, all republican candidate must move right in the primaries and then toward the middle for the general. This also happens to the democrats, they too have to move left in their primaries and then toward the middle for the general. But when your party has a sitting president running for a second term, especially if unchallenged, there is no tacking left needed as Obama proved in 2012.

Flip flopping wasn't really what Romney did in the general election. He did that back in 2008. He discarded a life long political views and stances to run in 2008. He did a 180 on many of his positions. It didn't help him in 2008, it hurt him. That carried over to 2012. For something like a flip flopper to really stick, there has to be substance to it. More substance than just tacking right for the primaries and then back toward the center for the general. For Romney it was changing his whole political philosophy back in 2008 and being a flip flopper stuck like glue to him. He was never able to over come that.

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First, my party does not have a sitting president, and never has.

Second, you do have a point that Romney didn't really change his political positions, but only the perception of those positions. Perception, however, is all important in politics, way ahead of substance anyway, when it comes to winning elections.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Ah, isn’t partisanship wonderful. My guy, my party is always 100% right, pure, honest, and always does the right thing where as the other guy, the other party is always 100% wrong, evil, liars and never does anything right. One will say over bridgegate that Christie knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didn’t know he is incompetent. The other will say over the IRS or other situation that Obama knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didn’t know he is incompetent.

And so it goes, for a partisan of a political party it is always defend and make excuses for my guy and crucify any one from the other party. Isn’t politics grand.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Dittohead not! said:

First, my party does not have a sitting president, and never has.

Second, you do have a point that Romney didn't really change his political positions, but only the perception of those positions. Perception, however, is all important in politics, way ahead of substance anyway, when it comes to winning elections.

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Exactly correct. I have tried to explain how the public's perception of anyone or any event is in reality much more important than reality. Even the truth. But few realize this.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

The Mark said:

The problem is that outside the D's and R's, the other options are usually a bunch of different ones that split up whatever portion of the vote is left after people vote for the D or the R.

Then of course there are those who vote against one candidate or the other, because they're so opposed to them...and the best chance of beating them is most often the other big letter.

In the end it's probably less than 25% of the voters who actually vote for someone other than a D or an R.


As for running a "real libertarian". They would lose, IMO. Real libertarianism is too radical for most people. Partial libertarianism mixed with conservatism or liberalism would probably go over better.

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Yes, probably so. I think voters have a lot more libertarian in their political philosophy than they realize, but then, some of the platform is pretty scary and probably unworkable in the modern world. A sort of compromise would go over well, if only people could be led to understand what it is all about.

How many voters would agree: The government is too big, too expensive, and a danger to individual liberty,
The purpose of government is to protect us from others, not to protect us from ourselves,
the war on drugs has become an expensive boondoggle that is not working,
Asset forfeiture laws are a violation of the Bill of Rights,
The government does not have the right to indefinite detention without trial,
Imposing a Pax Americana on the rest of the world is un-affordable and unworkable?

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Perotista said:

Ah, isn’t partisanship wonderful. My guy, my party is always 100% right, pure, honest, and always does the right thing where as the other guy, the other party is always 100% wrong, evil, liars and never does anything right. One will say over bridgegate that Christie knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didn’t know he is incompetent. The other will say over the IRS or other situation that Obama knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didn’t know he is incompetent.

And so it goes, for a partisan of a political party it is always defend and make excuses for my guy and crucify any one from the other party. Isn’t politics grand.

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Agreed. I think the larger lesson from all of this is exposure of the dangers in a government that is too large and too powerful. Bad people are drawn to power. And when they get power they often use it is bad ways. Whether it is some low level apparatchik at the IRS using what power he has to put the squeeze on a political opponent, or a high level official misusing the power of his office to inconvenience tens of thousands of motorists to exact some form of petty political retribution, the result is the same and so is the conclusion. If you don't limit the power of the state, it will overpower the individual. Cheering when your side does it only invites the other side to do the same. And in the end, you have both sides abusing state power for their own political ends. The loser in all of that is you and me.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

The Mark said:

The problem is that outside the D's and R's, the other options are usually a bunch of different ones that split up whatever portion of the vote is left after people vote for the D or the R.

Then of course there are those who vote against one candidate or the other, because they're so opposed to them...and the best chance of beating them is most often the other big letter.

In the end it's probably less than 25% of the voters who actually vote for someone other than a D or an R.


As for running a "real libertarian". They would lose, IMO. Real libertarianism is too radical for most people. Partial libertarianism mixed with conservatism or liberalism would probably go over better.

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When one breaks down the 2012 election 97% in the presidential race went to either Romney or Obama while 3% to the other various third parties. The party affiliation bread down was 35% Democrat, 30% Republican. 33% independent, 2% third party. So 97% of independents ended up voting for one of the two major party candidates. There is a ton of reasons for this. The majority of Independents usually lean toward one party or the other. Those who do not and those who dislike both candidate usually hold their nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. Why? Because the two major parties have ingrained into them that a vote for any third party candidate is a wasted vote, he can't win and those independents buy into this even if it means in their mind they are voting for a very bad candidate. But that bad candidate is the least worst candidate among the two major parties.

Money for political ads/commercials of the two major parties drown out any third party candidate/s. In 2012 Romney raised and spent a billion dollars on his attempt to beat Obama, Obama in return also raised and spent a billion dollars to be re-elected. The next in line as far as money raised and spent was Libertarian Candidate Gary Johnson who was only able to raise and spent 3 million. So what real chance did Johnson have? He was being outspent 2 billion to 3 million by the two major parties.

Then there are the election laws, written by republicans and democrats as a mutual protection act. They write these laws to almost make it impossible for any viable third party to arise and challenge them. They have a monopoly on our election system and will do anything to keep it that way.

In reality, there is no challenging them. I suppose one just has to hold their nose when they go vote. There is no such thing as a fair election in this country. Just legal ones.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Fletch said:

Agreed. I think the larger lesson from all of this is exposure of the dangers in a government that is too large and too powerful. Bad people are drawn to power. And when they get power they often use it is bad ways. Whether it is some low level apparatchik at the IRS using what power he has to put the squeeze on a political opponent, or a high level official misusing the power of his office to inconvenience tens of thousands of motorists to exact some form of petty political retribution, the result is the same and so is the conclusion. If you don't limit the power of the state, it will overpower the individual. Cheering when your side does it only invites the other side to do the same. And in the end, you have both sides abusing state power for their own political ends. The loser in all of that is you and me.

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Very true. Especially the cheering when my used political power to achieve its agenda and hollering, screaming at the top of your lungs when the other side does the same thing. Gerrymandering is a prime example, it is perfectly okay if its my side doing it, but if the other side does it, it should be made illegal. Reid nuclear option in the senate will be another, republicans holler and the Democrat are gleeful. Let the republicans gain the senate and they use the nuclear option say to repeal obamacare, they will be cheering and the democrats will be screaming.

The democrats scream when republicans uses executive orders to circumvent congress, republicans scream when democrats do it. Both cheer when they guy does it. But as you say, when we let government, the state become as big as it has, those who occupy our cherished elected positions find they have the power to do pretty much what they want. Those in power always try to keep those out of power, out of power by what ever it takes. By hook or crook, by legal means or illegal means. Such is our political system today.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Perotista said:

Ah, isn’t partisanship wonderful. My guy, my party is always 100% right, pure, honest, and always does the right thing where as the other guy, the other party is always 100% wrong, evil, liars and never does anything right. One will say over bridgegate that Christie knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didn’t know he is incompetent. The other will say over the IRS or other situation that Obama knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didn’t know he is incompetent.

And so it goes, for a partisan of a political party it is always defend and make excuses for my guy and crucify any one from the other party. Isn’t politics grand.

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With politicians it is party first. The staff of Christie apparently put Party over the people first.

You are right that there is always the finger pointing of one party from the other party. The immediate response in these type of situations is by the party supporters is look what you guys have done.

But only this time I can't remember anything brought to attention of us that someone deliberately caused a traffic jam for four fricking days. I know in sexual escapades it is real easy to find similiar offenses by the other party but in this event I can't remember another similiar event. This is something like the movie Animal House where they threw boxes of marbles onto the street to trip the ROTC cadets.

So many party loyalists can't figure why this is talked about but the reason is that we have never seen this kind of action before. Am certain there have been other escapades such as changing precinct
boundaries and such but nothing like this.

I think his whole staff should be flushed down the cesspool.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Crosscheck said:

With politicians it is party first. The staff of Christie apparently put Party over the people first.

You are right that there is always the finger pointing of one party from the other party. The immediate response in these type of situations is by the party supporters is look what you guys have done.

But only this time I can't remember anything brought to attention of us that someone deliberately caused a traffic jam for four fricking days. I know in sexual escapades it is real easy to find similiar offenses by the other party but in this event I can't remember another similiar event. This is something like the movie Animal House where they threw boxes of marbles onto the street to trip the ROTC cadets.

So many party loyalists can't figure why this is talked about but the reason is that we have never seen this kind of action before. Am certain there have been other escapades such as changing precinct
boundaries and such but nothing like this.

I think his whole staff should be flushed down the cesspool.

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The reason this is such a big story is because a traffic jam is something everyone can relate to. The only thing worse than to be caught in a miles long backup, is to learn that that backup was INTENIONALLY created. There is no excuse for this sort of thing and Christie, while I do like the guy, has hurt himself immeasurably. Not because he was directly involved, but because his staff was. Trust me, there will be more incidences of this sort of thing that will be uncovered in coming weeks and months and his ability to distance himself from it will become impossible. I think hes finished. And that is too bad.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Fletch said:

The reason this is such a big story is because a traffic jam is something everyone can relate to.

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Everyone cannot relate to the IRS when they pay federal / state taxes? I would think people would relate MORE to the IRS targeting certain people and groups especially since every year we all (well, those of us who pay taxes) must bow to the IRS and send in our previous years accounting.

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I'm picturing the political ads already: Voters in a miles long traffic jam, voice over telling us that Washington will be a huge traffic jam if we elect Christie, cars overheated and steaming, the country overheated and steaming, hey, I could write political ads!

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Ockham said:

Everyone cannot relate to the IRS when they pay federal / state taxes? I would think people would relate MORE to the IRS targeting certain people and groups especially since every year we all (well, those of us who pay taxes) must bow to the IRS and send in our previous years accounting.

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The IRS "scandal" dealt with political groups that were applying for tax-free status. Since few people have tax-free status it's "No, most people can't relate to that"

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Ockham said:

Everyone cannot relate to the IRS when they pay federal / state taxes? I would think people would relate MORE to the IRS targeting certain people and groups especially since every year we all (well, those of us who pay taxes) must bow to the IRS and send in our previous years accounting.

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That was a big story when it broke, but there has really been nothing new so it has fizzled. If there is nothing new here, this story will do the same. But if there were an e-mail from an Obama deputy chief of staff to Lois Lerner saying "Time for some audits of Tea Party groups" we would still be talking about it. Personally, I think abuse at the IRS is a bigger scandal, but I get why this one has caught everyones attention. The issue is the same in both, however, abuse of governmental power.

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Dittohead not! said:

I'm picturing the political ads already: Voters in a miles long traffic jam, voice over telling us that Washington will be a huge traffic jam if we elect Christie, cars overheated and steaming, the country overheated and steaming, hey, I could write political ads!

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On commercial would go like this...
"One person died in the traffic jam".
"One million people will die if Christie is Elected."

and another would go like this...
"Chris Christie will sneak into your house and eat your food if elected president"

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Fletch said:

That was a big story when it broke, but there has really been nothing new so it has fizzled. If there is nothing new here, this story will do the same. But if there were an e-mail from an Obama deputy chief of staff to Lois Lerner saying "Time for some audits of Tea Party groups" we would still be talking about it. Personally, I think abuse at the IRS is a bigger scandal, but I get why this one has caught everyones attention. The issue is the same in both, however, abuse of governmental power.

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Well the only new thing that has happened in the 7 months since President Obama declared he would hold people responsible, is that he's appointed a democratic donor to investigate it. Will I be surprised when no wrong doing is found? Nah... just par for the course.

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

reinoe said:

On commercial would go like this...
"One person died in the traffic jam".
"One million people will die if Christie is Elected."

and another would go like this...
"Chris Christie will sneak into your house and eat your food if elected president"

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Let's assume for the sake of argument that it's Christie vs Hillary Clinton. Commercial opens with Christie saying at press conference that he's accountable and takes responsibility. Cut to Hillary asking "What difference does it make?" Narrator then asks who you trust. Christie wins.eace