• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109:573]

Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

I do not think it is the right-wing machine that will even try to spin it away. The right wing do not want Christie as their nominee, they consider him a RINO. The Republican establishment may give him some cover is there is any there, there. But not the right wing. They already blame Christie for him embrace of President Obama during the final days of the election, for Christie trying to help the people of his state in recovering from hurricane Sandy. The right wing will use this against him.

According to RCP, only 18% of all Republicans want him as their nominee in 2016. Most Republicans are looking at Rand Paul or Cruz. Believe me, the right wing wants nothing to do with Christie. They are probably digging for more dirt on him than any Democrat. The right wings fears him more than the Democrats even.

I think that's the official story of the Republican party but its not the truth. The tea party crew have been beaten back a bit, even publicly with Boehner. The GOP will give lip service and denigrate RINO's here and there but they want a more moderate Republican like Romney to run. Its the same story every election... A lot of Republicans want the most conservative person in the room but the country will not elect them so they have to go with a "RINO" while conservatives moan about it, "if only we elected a real Conservative we'd win". I see no reason why history won't repeat itself, especially after the weakening of the tea party wing.

Ted Cruz is far, far, far too polarizing. He will make a lot of noise, possibly be in 2nd in the polls for a week and be brushed off to the side near the mid to end of the primaries as a joke. I can almost imagine Rand going far but... its really shaky. If he were to moderate himself and sound more reasonable without losing too much of libertarian / tea party appeal he could do it but I have my doubts.

Christie is their best chance by far as long as he can squeak out of this without any damning evidence cropping up. He can fight and win people over in debates with his tough guy no nonsense personality.
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Timing is everything when it comes to elections. No one know what events, happenings, issue will be hot in 2016 this far out. Clinton has name recognition and her flaws are well known. Her favorable/unfavorable ratings are almost even 47/45 and I suspect they will not change much as she is a known quantity. Christie, Paul, Cruz, Jeb Bush, Rubio etc are not so well known. Christie has gotten a lot of play and his favorable/unfavorable is at 43/31 but that leave 26% who don't know/unsure or haven't made up their mind about him. All the rest have the unsure/don't know percentages in the 30's or above leaving a lot of wiggle room although all the rest are in the negative by 10 points or more.

So we wait and see what happens, time will tell if any really become viable outside of Christie.
Yes, you're right. Time will tell, and we don't know what issues might be hot in '16. However, one thing that seems likely at this point is that:
any moderate Republican, read "electable", like Christie will have to play to the right wing to be nominated, like Romney did.
then, said moderate Republican will have to move, or appear to move, more into the mainstream, like Romney.
Then, said candidate will be called a flip flopper, like, well, you know.
And being a flip flopper is going to make it more difficult to get elected.
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

LOL.

Liberals elect a band of near mafia-like Chicago politicans to the White House, then get all twisted in knots over a traffic jam on a bridge that might indicate a heavy-handed act on behalf of the governor.

Guess that Gates book about Obama/Hillary really struck a nerve. THAT should be the big story of the month, but it's a mere blurb. Inconvenient traffic trumps admittedly politicized war surges.

I don't even like Christie, but the shamelessness of the MSM and liberals is truly pathetic. If only they'd take one of those 4 million jobs available that they refuse to work, there'd be less time to make a mountain out of this relative molehill.
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Timing is everything when it comes to elections. No one know what events, happenings, issue will be hot in 2016 this far out. Clinton has name recognition and her flaws are well known. Her favorable/unfavorable ratings are almost even 47/45 and I suspect they will not change much as she is a known quantity. Christie, Paul, Cruz, Jeb Bush, Rubio etc are not so well known. Christie has gotten a lot of play and his favorable/unfavorable is at 43/31 but that leave 26% who don't know/unsure or haven't made up their mind about him. All the rest have the unsure/don't know percentages in the 30's or above leaving a lot of wiggle room although all the rest are in the negative by 10 points or more.

So we wait and see what happens, time will tell if any really become viable outside of Christie.

Good morning, Pero. :2wave:

:agree: on possible candidates. I think a lot will depend on the 2014 election outcome.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY today, my friend! Going to the Wat to celebrate? :mrgreen:
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Perhaps that's valid for some. Others want a little more evidence before condemning.

I haven't actually condemned Christie himself because there's no evidence that he was involved. He fired the aide that was, which I think was a completely appropriate response from him. If anything comes up that shows he was involved, I might change my tune on that. So far, no problems with his own actions or his handling of the situation.



It would only be disingenuous if a.) you knew how I actually voted and didn't assume and b.) if you knew I accepted it with Bush but not with Obama. Fact is, I didn't vote for Obama either time, I did vote for Bush twice so you're right on one account, however in my defense with Bush - voting in Al Gore or Kerry? Comon... can you really blame me? Lastly, Obama's governance is either DOA or MIA... there is no governance. He doesn't talk to his own party unless he needs something from them. I can go on criticizing for hours but I will spare you - suffice to say if Obama did what Christie did yesterday during the IRS scandal, he'd have much more support and begrudging appreciation from Republicans. I didn't agree with Bill Clinton - still think his man-whore escapades are an embarrassment to the Presidency but he did pretty good for the American people overall. Frankly, I wish he (not Hillary) could run again.

I don't really blame you for voting Bush instead of either of the cardboard cutouts he ran against. Though I did vote for the cutouts. I voted for Obama in '08, but not in '12. Obama could definitely take some pointers from Christie about how to handle these things.

Criticism of a public figure opens up comparison especially to those that deserve the comparison. I only wish the press would turn their keen eye on Obama's last 2 years as they have on Christie's last 48 hours. That however, we all know will not happen.

I'm not worried about the press. There is conservative press out there that will be more than happy to shine on a spotlight on Obama's failings. Even a legitimate conservative press like Fox, or National Review, maybe even the Blaze (not Breitbart, or Glenn Beck's blogs)
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Whether Christie knew or didn't is really irrelevant. The idea the atmosphere/culture of hardball politics allowed in his office is obivious. His top aides obviously felt very comfortable that they could play the bully and do such a thing without repercussion. And what they did didn't hurt the mayor but caused grief to the people. This thing of claiming "I didn't know" seems to be catching on these days. We have a president who uses the excuse frequently. I know the GOP has high hopes for Christie and have already invested a good amount in him. The talking heads especially on Fox have been working overtime with damage control calling Christie an exemplary example of leadership on how he has handled this situation. Sorry, I don't see it.
I agree completely. The idea that two of his inner circle could think they could behave this way, abuse their power, and do so in a way that inconveniences tens of thousand of people indicates to me that this is not the first time thins has happened and is clearly the result of how he runs his office. Comparisons to the worst aspects of Nixon and Obama are hardly things that lead me to believe he would be the right guy for the White House.
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Nobody that has been suggested so far.

Ok, but I didn't ask if you like who has been suggested to date, I asked who you would think would be a better demo?
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

The bridge wasn't backed up.

It was the city of Fort Lee, that was essentially turned into a parking lot, for four days.

On the first day of school.

During the anniversary of 9/11.

On an order from Christies office.

Why do you think this has gone to the point where 4 heads have already rolled, Christie's hand picked PA dude who took the 5th yesterday for fear of Criminal charges, a US Senate committee investigation, and now the US Attorney's office opening an investigation?

I am aware, and at least he acted and did what a leader is supposed to do. But on the DoJ investigating, isn't that wonderful? Holder doesn't want to look into assaults by black youth, and wants to put Mumia abu Jamal's attorney in charge of the Civil rights division, but oh Lordy, there is traffic on the GW....Call out the hounds! :roll:
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Omg... you are suggesting this was just a routine traffic jam and nothing more? You're so partisan you can't even see straight. I see no point in conversing with you whatsoever if you're that far gone.

:lol: mmmm....Yeah right...When you tell me what heads have rolled in any of Obama's scandals, come on back.
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

I am aware, and at least he acted and did what a leader is supposed to do. But on the DoJ investigating, isn't that wonderful? Holder doesn't want to look into assaults by black youth, and wants to put Mumia abu Jamal's attorney in charge of the Civil rights division, but oh Lordy, there is traffic on the GW....Call out the hounds! :roll:

Is that ALL you guys can do is divert and deflect instead of addressing the issue at hand?

l
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

I am aware, and at least he acted and did what a leader is supposed to do.

Yes, when a Governor is investigating whether or not his top appointees conspired to abuse their powers, he is supposed to not check their emails. :roll:
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Ok, but I didn't ask if you like who has been suggested to date, I asked who you would think would be a better demo?

I don't know, but there must be dozens of them. How about Steve Bullock, current governor of Montana? He has the experience of governing, he was elected in a mostly Republican state, and so must be able to work across party lines, he is young enough to have the energy for the job.

There are lots of ambitious pols out there who would most likely be able to do a better job than the past couple of presidents at least.
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Yes. Now it has become a Federal matter, as well as a matter of more State investigations. Investigations Christie wanted no part of.

I think anything I have to say further would be repetitive. Until such time as there is further evidence to support your belief, Christie will be just fine.
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Is that ALL you guys can do is divert and deflect instead of addressing the issue at hand?

l

What exactly would you like addressed? A traffic snarl happened by deliberate actions taken by staff inside Christie's office, that is a fact. Christie says he knew nothing about it, and has fired people involved, that is a fact. Investigations are ongoing, and may, or may not turn anything new up, that is a fact. Everything else is pure speculation for political fodder. Is that what you want?
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Yes, when a Governor is investigating whether or not his top appointees conspired to abuse their powers, he is supposed to not check their emails. :roll:

I am sure that is exactly what he did once he found out about it...Are you suggesting that he spend his entire day checking e-mail?
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

I am aware, and at least he acted and did what a leader is supposed to do. But on the DoJ investigating, isn't that wonderful? Holder doesn't want to look into assaults by black youth, and wants to put Mumia abu Jamal's attorney in charge of the Civil rights division, but oh Lordy, there is traffic on the GW....Call out the hounds! :roll:
He did what a leader is supposed to do? The bridge was closed for four days and he didn't even start an investigation on that. You really are blindingly partisan.
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

He did what a leader is supposed to do? The bridge was closed for four days and he didn't even start an investigation on that. You really are blindingly partisan.
lol, no... no, it wasn't. If the GWB was closed for 4 days, there wouldn't be press conferences. Commuters would have assassinated government officials.
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

I don't know, but there must be dozens of them. How about Steve Bullock, current governor of Montana? He has the experience of governing, he was elected in a mostly Republican state, and so must be able to work across party lines, he is young enough to have the energy for the job.

There are lots of ambitious pols out there who would most likely be able to do a better job than the past couple of presidents at least.

According to his wiki page you provided, I see nothing extraordinary there that is too hard to achieve on its face:

Bullock announced on September 7, 2011 that he would be a candidate for the Democratic nomination for Governor of Montana in 2012.[20] In the Democratic primary, Bullock faced off against Helena resident Heather Margolis. Bullock won with 87% of the vote.[21]
He and his running mate, General John Walsh, proposed a jobs plan that focuses on small and medium sized Montana businesses as the engines of job creation. Bullock and Gen. Walsh call for:[22]
Streamlining the regulatory permitting process and establishing a new permit tracking system,
Ensuring that government services meet the demands of job creators,
Supporting rapid growth in eastern Montana by making sure communities receive funds before or in preparation for natural resource development rather than afterwards,
Promoting the hiring of Montanans first for jobs inside the state paid for by taxpayers’ money,
Expanding in-state business activity to create a business climate that spurs faster expansion and greater business-to-business activity among Montana companies,
Further reforming Montana’s workers’ compensation system to reduce the number of workers who are injured or killed on the job, getting injured workers back to work as soon as possible and controlling medical costs.
Requiring major firms that are awarded state contracts to subcontract a substantial percentage of their work to in-state businesses.
Bullock proposed a $400 property tax rebate for homeowners in Montana to spur job creation and refund a portion of the state’s $400 million budget surplus.[23]
General John Walsh, Bullock’s running mate, is the former Adjutant General of the Montana National Guard.[24] Bullock won the election, held on November 6, 2012, defeating Republican ex-US Representative Rick Hill.[25] Bullock came out on top by 7,571 votes, or 48.9%, to Hill’s 47.3%. Libertarian candidate Ron Vandevender pulled 3.8% of the vote.[26]

Can you tell me how he has done so far with his goals in his first year?

Looking a little deeper than wiki, which has a reputation for possible skewed pages due to the open entry feature, I came up with this:

Montana’s Democratic Governor Steve Bullock has vetoed 71 bills passed by the 2013 State Legislature. That number is second only to former Gov. Brian Schweitzer’s 78 vetoes during and after the 2011 Legislative Session.

Given heavy GOP dominance of the legislature during the last two sessions while the governor’s office has been occupied by a liberal Democrat, it should come as little surprise that vetoes have become commonplace in Montana politics.

Many of the vetoed bills seek to advance typically conservative causes: tax reform, states’ rights, school choice, market oriented energy policies, and protecting 2nd Amendment rights. However, several of the bills also dealt with more centrist issues such as providing aid to Eastern Montana localities impacted by oil and gas development, and sportsmen’s issues, such as allowing hunters to use sound suppressors.

8 Controversial Vetoes By Montana Governor Steve Bullock During the 2013 Legislative Session » Media Trackers
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

He did what a leader is supposed to do? The bridge was closed for four days and he didn't even start an investigation on that. You really are blindingly partisan.

No, I don't think I am anyway....I don't really even like Christie as a Presidential nominee...But, I find this rush to scream about this phony scandal ridiculous. He, gave a presser yesterday for almost 2 full hours, answering every query posed directly. He left himself NO wiggle room in that.

I actually think that comparing this to IRS, Benghazi, NSA, reportergate, Fast and Furious, Obamacare website, etc. are a little much if not only to show how the irony of hypocrisy from progressives is on full display here. But what I do think it is more akin to is, remember when the shutdown was happening, and Obama closed down the memorials, and tried to turn away 90 year old vets by force? Who got fired over that?

The bridge was closed for four days...

That is factually untrue.
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

Voting for the lesser of 2 evils still means you're voting for evil.
There wasn't enough distance between the two, IMO. One put an individual mandate on his state when he was governor, the other copied it nationwide. NSA, drones...basically identical positions. Essentially the only difference was that one was sort of for gay marriage, and the other was sort of against it.

I'm comfortable with how I voted. While you can say "You helped re-elect Obama,"
to me there wasn't any evidence that Romney would be any better, worse, or indeed different
... and you still feel that way?
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

He did what a leader is supposed to do?
The bridge was closed for four days
and he didn't even start an investigation on that. You really are blindingly partisan.

Where on earth did you hear that?
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

I am sure that is exactly what he did once he found out about it...Are you suggesting that he spend his entire day checking e-mail?

I am suggesting *gasp* that whoever he put in charge of investigating the matter spend their time checking e-mail.

Is that too complicated a concept to understand?
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

I am suggesting *gasp* that whoever he put in charge of investigating the matter spend their time checking e-mail.

Is that too complicated a concept to understand?

Not at all, don't get dickish dude....I agree....But, I should ask, what leads you to think that they aren't checking e-mails?
 
Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

According to his wiki page you provided, I see nothing extraordinary there that is too hard to achieve on its face:



Can you tell me how he has done so far with his goals in his first year?

Looking a little deeper than wiki, which has a reputation for possible skewed pages due to the open entry feature, I came up with this:

I don't know how far he has gotten with his goals, but they seem to be goals to get the state headed in the right direction. Is this guy the best choice? I don't know. Would he be better than what we have now? Most likely, but, again, he's a sort of an unknown quantity. The point is that there are many possible candidates, and, if we can find one who is able to work across party lines, who has executive experience, who doesn't have a huge skeleton in his closet, who understands free market economics, who supports the Constitution, then we'd be way ahead to get behind him/her regardless of the party.

What I doubt at this point is the right wing of the Republican Party allowing such a candidate to be nominated, or for the party to be able to actually win an election. That could prove wrong, of course, but if it isn't, then the alternative is going to be whoever the Democrats nominate.
 
Back
Top Bottom