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Thread: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109:573]

  1. #411
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    Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

    Ah, isn’t partisanship wonderful. My guy, my party is always 100% right, pure, honest, and always does the right thing where as the other guy, the other party is always 100% wrong, evil, liars and never does anything right. One will say over bridgegate that Christie knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didn’t know he is incompetent. The other will say over the IRS or other situation that Obama knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didn’t know he is incompetent.

    And so it goes, for a partisan of a political party it is always defend and make excuses for my guy and crucify any one from the other party. Isn’t politics grand.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  2. #412
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    Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    First, my party does not have a sitting president, and never has.

    Second, you do have a point that Romney didn't really change his political positions, but only the perception of those positions. Perception, however, is all important in politics, way ahead of substance anyway, when it comes to winning elections.
    Exactly correct. I have tried to explain how the public's perception of anyone or any event is in reality much more important than reality. Even the truth. But few realize this.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    The problem is that outside the D's and R's, the other options are usually a bunch of different ones that split up whatever portion of the vote is left after people vote for the D or the R.

    Then of course there are those who vote against one candidate or the other, because they're so opposed to them...and the best chance of beating them is most often the other big letter.

    In the end it's probably less than 25% of the voters who actually vote for someone other than a D or an R.


    As for running a "real libertarian". They would lose, IMO. Real libertarianism is too radical for most people. Partial libertarianism mixed with conservatism or liberalism would probably go over better.
    Yes, probably so. I think voters have a lot more libertarian in their political philosophy than they realize, but then, some of the platform is pretty scary and probably unworkable in the modern world. A sort of compromise would go over well, if only people could be led to understand what it is all about.

    How many voters would agree: The government is too big, too expensive, and a danger to individual liberty,
    The purpose of government is to protect us from others, not to protect us from ourselves,
    the war on drugs has become an expensive boondoggle that is not working,
    Asset forfeiture laws are a violation of the Bill of Rights,
    The government does not have the right to indefinite detention without trial,
    Imposing a Pax Americana on the rest of the world is un-affordable and unworkable?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  4. #414
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    Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Ah, isn’t partisanship wonderful. My guy, my party is always 100% right, pure, honest, and always does the right thing where as the other guy, the other party is always 100% wrong, evil, liars and never does anything right. One will say over bridgegate that Christie knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didn’t know he is incompetent. The other will say over the IRS or other situation that Obama knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didn’t know he is incompetent.

    And so it goes, for a partisan of a political party it is always defend and make excuses for my guy and crucify any one from the other party. Isn’t politics grand.
    Agreed. I think the larger lesson from all of this is exposure of the dangers in a government that is too large and too powerful. Bad people are drawn to power. And when they get power they often use it is bad ways. Whether it is some low level apparatchik at the IRS using what power he has to put the squeeze on a political opponent, or a high level official misusing the power of his office to inconvenience tens of thousands of motorists to exact some form of petty political retribution, the result is the same and so is the conclusion. If you don't limit the power of the state, it will overpower the individual. Cheering when your side does it only invites the other side to do the same. And in the end, you have both sides abusing state power for their own political ends. The loser in all of that is you and me.

  5. #415
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    Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    The problem is that outside the D's and R's, the other options are usually a bunch of different ones that split up whatever portion of the vote is left after people vote for the D or the R.

    Then of course there are those who vote against one candidate or the other, because they're so opposed to them...and the best chance of beating them is most often the other big letter.

    In the end it's probably less than 25% of the voters who actually vote for someone other than a D or an R.


    As for running a "real libertarian". They would lose, IMO. Real libertarianism is too radical for most people. Partial libertarianism mixed with conservatism or liberalism would probably go over better.
    When one breaks down the 2012 election 97% in the presidential race went to either Romney or Obama while 3% to the other various third parties. The party affiliation bread down was 35% Democrat, 30% Republican. 33% independent, 2% third party. So 97% of independents ended up voting for one of the two major party candidates. There is a ton of reasons for this. The majority of Independents usually lean toward one party or the other. Those who do not and those who dislike both candidate usually hold their nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. Why? Because the two major parties have ingrained into them that a vote for any third party candidate is a wasted vote, he can't win and those independents buy into this even if it means in their mind they are voting for a very bad candidate. But that bad candidate is the least worst candidate among the two major parties.

    Money for political ads/commercials of the two major parties drown out any third party candidate/s. In 2012 Romney raised and spent a billion dollars on his attempt to beat Obama, Obama in return also raised and spent a billion dollars to be re-elected. The next in line as far as money raised and spent was Libertarian Candidate Gary Johnson who was only able to raise and spent 3 million. So what real chance did Johnson have? He was being outspent 2 billion to 3 million by the two major parties.

    Then there are the election laws, written by republicans and democrats as a mutual protection act. They write these laws to almost make it impossible for any viable third party to arise and challenge them. They have a monopoly on our election system and will do anything to keep it that way.

    In reality, there is no challenging them. I suppose one just has to hold their nose when they go vote. There is no such thing as a fair election in this country. Just legal ones.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Agreed. I think the larger lesson from all of this is exposure of the dangers in a government that is too large and too powerful. Bad people are drawn to power. And when they get power they often use it is bad ways. Whether it is some low level apparatchik at the IRS using what power he has to put the squeeze on a political opponent, or a high level official misusing the power of his office to inconvenience tens of thousands of motorists to exact some form of petty political retribution, the result is the same and so is the conclusion. If you don't limit the power of the state, it will overpower the individual. Cheering when your side does it only invites the other side to do the same. And in the end, you have both sides abusing state power for their own political ends. The loser in all of that is you and me.
    Very true. Especially the cheering when my used political power to achieve its agenda and hollering, screaming at the top of your lungs when the other side does the same thing. Gerrymandering is a prime example, it is perfectly okay if its my side doing it, but if the other side does it, it should be made illegal. Reid nuclear option in the senate will be another, republicans holler and the Democrat are gleeful. Let the republicans gain the senate and they use the nuclear option say to repeal obamacare, they will be cheering and the democrats will be screaming.

    The democrats scream when republicans uses executive orders to circumvent congress, republicans scream when democrats do it. Both cheer when they guy does it. But as you say, when we let government, the state become as big as it has, those who occupy our cherished elected positions find they have the power to do pretty much what they want. Those in power always try to keep those out of power, out of power by what ever it takes. By hook or crook, by legal means or illegal means. Such is our political system today.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  7. #417
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    Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Ah, isnít partisanship wonderful. My guy, my party is always 100% right, pure, honest, and always does the right thing where as the other guy, the other party is always 100% wrong, evil, liars and never does anything right. One will say over bridgegate that Christie knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didnít know he is incompetent. The other will say over the IRS or other situation that Obama knew and should be sacrificed at the altar and if he didnít know he is incompetent.

    And so it goes, for a partisan of a political party it is always defend and make excuses for my guy and crucify any one from the other party. Isnít politics grand.
    With politicians it is party first. The staff of Christie apparently put Party over the people first.

    You are right that there is always the finger pointing of one party from the other party. The immediate response in these type of situations is by the party supporters is look what you guys have done.

    But only this time I can't remember anything brought to attention of us that someone deliberately caused a traffic jam for four fricking days. I know in sexual escapades it is real easy to find similiar offenses by the other party but in this event I can't remember another similiar event. This is something like the movie Animal House where they threw boxes of marbles onto the street to trip the ROTC cadets.

    So many party loyalists can't figure why this is talked about but the reason is that we have never seen this kind of action before. Am certain there have been other escapades such as changing precinct
    boundaries and such but nothing like this.

    I think his whole staff should be flushed down the cesspool.

  8. #418
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    Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    With politicians it is party first. The staff of Christie apparently put Party over the people first.

    You are right that there is always the finger pointing of one party from the other party. The immediate response in these type of situations is by the party supporters is look what you guys have done.

    But only this time I can't remember anything brought to attention of us that someone deliberately caused a traffic jam for four fricking days. I know in sexual escapades it is real easy to find similiar offenses by the other party but in this event I can't remember another similiar event. This is something like the movie Animal House where they threw boxes of marbles onto the street to trip the ROTC cadets.

    So many party loyalists can't figure why this is talked about but the reason is that we have never seen this kind of action before. Am certain there have been other escapades such as changing precinct
    boundaries and such but nothing like this.

    I think his whole staff should be flushed down the cesspool.
    The reason this is such a big story is because a traffic jam is something everyone can relate to. The only thing worse than to be caught in a miles long backup, is to learn that that backup was INTENIONALLY created. There is no excuse for this sort of thing and Christie, while I do like the guy, has hurt himself immeasurably. Not because he was directly involved, but because his staff was. Trust me, there will be more incidences of this sort of thing that will be uncovered in coming weeks and months and his ability to distance himself from it will become impossible. I think hes finished. And that is too bad.

  9. #419
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    Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    The reason this is such a big story is because a traffic jam is something everyone can relate to.
    Everyone cannot relate to the IRS when they pay federal / state taxes? I would think people would relate MORE to the IRS targeting certain people and groups especially since every year we all (well, those of us who pay taxes) must bow to the IRS and send in our previous years accounting.
    ďI think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whatís being proposed here, heíd agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.Ē - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #420
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    Re: Emails link top Christie aide to GWB lane-closing controversy - [W:77,109]

    I'm picturing the political ads already: Voters in a miles long traffic jam, voice over telling us that Washington will be a huge traffic jam if we elect Christie, cars overheated and steaming, the country overheated and steaming, hey, I could write political ads!
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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